Does touching the private parts without a barrier invalidate the ablution?

The questioner : Peace be upon you.

The Shaykh : Peace be upon you.

The questioner : Shaykh Muhammad, may Allah reward you. You mentioned in the book *Sharh al-Mumt* regarding the ruling on touching the private parts that if it is done without desire, it does not invalidate the ablution, but if it is done with desire, the stronger opinion is that it requires the ablution.

The Shaykh : Yes.

The questioner : O Shaykh, is this statement about touching with a barrier or without a barrier?

The Shaykh : No, without a barrier. Do you hear? Without a barrier.

The questioner : Without a barrier means if the touching is direct.

The Shaykh : Direct, meaning if there is a barrier, one is touching the barrier, not the private parts.

The questioner : Okay, if the touching is without a barrier, does it invalidate the ablution?

The Shaykh : Without desire.

The questioner : Yes, without desire.

The Shaykh : No, it does not invalidate it.

The questioner : And if it is with desire.

The Shaykh : It invalidates it.

The questioner : It invalidates the ablution. Okay, may Allah reward you with good, O Shaykh. Peace be upon you.

The Shaykh : Welcome.