If one uses an ATM card at a machine from another bank and they take a commission, is it considered riba (usury or interest)?

The questioner : Please, go ahead. Peace be upon you.

The Shaykh : And upon you be peace.

The questioner : May Allah give you a good morning, Shaykh.

The Shaykh : May Allah give you a good morning.

The questioner : Regarding the use of bank ATM cards, may Allah preserve you. If, for example, I have an account at a bank and they gave me an ATM card, and I use it at another bank, and the second bank takes a commission from the first bank for the amount of the loan—they call this a loan—does this count as riba (usury or interest)?

The Shaykh : No, as far as the beneficiary is concerned, he owes nothing.

The questioner : He owes nothing.

The Shaykh : He owes nothing, because this is a transaction between the banks.

The questioner : Is this not cooperation in sin and aggression?

The Shaykh : No, there is no sin and no aggression, because they say the man took from our vault.

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh : And we worked on the vault and its repair, and we take a fee from you; he takes a fee from the second bank.

The questioner : This is in exchange for that fee.

The Shaykh : Yes, in exchange, yes, in exchange for these fees.

The questioner : So this is fine, and those who compare it to the single percentage of riba (usury or interest), Shaykh, is it administrative fees?

The Shaykh : It is not valid, because this is from two parties only; the issue of riba (usury or interest) is from a third party who worked, and nothing happened.

The presenter : Yes, may Allah bless you, Shaykh, and may Allah reward you with good, and you as well. Peace be upon you. Safe travels.