What is the ruling on dealing with joint-stock companies?

The questioner : We know... that there are transactions in the capitalist system in which a Muslim is not permitted to participate. Now... this is a joint-stock company, and if we wanted to understand its reality, we would find that it stems from the capitalist system, which permits the exploitation of wealth and effort by all means.

The Shaykh : And among these means is riba (usury or interest).

The questioner : And among them, yes, riba (usury or interest). What is your opinion, O Shaykh, about joint-stock companies in this regard...?

The Shaykh : My opinion regarding joint-stock companies.

The questioner : Joint-stock companies, yes.

The Shaykh : Fine, where is their money? Are the funds of joint-stock companies not in the banks?

The questioner : Yes, in the banks.

The Shaykh : Fine, it is clear from the title of the written document.

The questioner : If they were not in the banks, if they were...

The Shaykh : Do not impose hypotheticals; address the reality.

The questioner : ...a small share, O our Shaykh.

The Shaykh: Yes.

The questioner : They were three young men, or four, or five, working together...

Another questioner : Pardon me, I do not mean that. I mean the joint-stock company that stems from the capitalist system and is currently being dealt with. As for interpreting it according to our concept and developing it Islamically, or according to the Islamic concept...

The Shaykh : And so you see, you are contradicting yourself now. I told you to assume such and such, so why did you return to the hypothesis and leave the actual reality?

The questioner : My question was about the joint-stock company that stems from the capitalist system.

The Shaykh : And my answer was regarding that question.

The questioner : Yes, your answer was... that it is not permissible.

The Shaykh: Yes.

The questioner : May Allah reward you.

The Shaykh : And you, but you forgot your own situation. What did you do?

The questioner : What did you do?

The Shaykh : This is the problem.

The questioner : Remind me, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh : I said, assume that they do not put their money in the banks.

The questioner : This second hypothesis is another matter; we have moved to another question.

The Shaykh : This is a hypothetical question.

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : It is not realistic.
The student : We do not need it.

The questioner : No, we do not need it. The first one is finished, and the answer became clear. The company, I mean, O our Shaykh, Abu Hashim was on this point. Abu Hashim said that working in a joint-stock company is permissible because... because the conversation went like that. So our brother Ramadan responded and said, but Abu Hashim was not present. He said that working or contracting with joint-stock companies is not permissible because the contract is invalid (batil). So you, I mean, clarified the matter for me now. I mean, it is not just a ruling on the company, but a ruling on contracting and working with the joint-stock company. What is your opinion... O Shaykh, regarding the matter of contracting and working with them?

Another questioner : I mean, the joint-stock company is not permissible according to the Shari'ah.

The Shaykh: Yes.

The questioner : Is it permissible for Muslims to deal with it?

The Shaykh : Is it permissible to deal with the banks?

The questioner : It is not permissible.

The Shaykh : It is not permissible.

The questioner : It is not permissible to establish contracts between a person and a joint-stock company.

The Shaykh : Of course, it is not permissible. Abu Hashim says it is permissible.

The questioner : Abu Hashim said it is permissible.

The Shaykh : You are testifying that Abu Hashim said it is permissible.

The questioner : Ah, I heard him say that... After the Friday prayer, a man came and asked me about this. I said to him, "My brother, what is the reality of the joint-stock company?" He said to me, "By Allah, I am contracting with people who tell me, 'Come work in concrete or work in painting or such,' for a specific wage, for example, monthly or annual." I said to him, "By Allah, the nature of your work is permissible." He said, "Permissible?" In truth, I was ignorant of the work of the joint-stock company. I thought it was a company like any other company. So I said, "By Allah, if the work is permissible and you, I mean, receive the wage for the work, there is nothing wrong with it." That was my question. So our brother Abu Hashim approved me in that. And the man, as if he had heard from other people that it is not permissible, so he persisted and emphasized and such, and kept repeating the question. So Abu Hashim... and said it is permissible. And Abu Hashim mentioned... it is not permissible to contract with the joint-stock company because the contract...