A discussion on issues related to following a specific school of jurisprudence and sectarianism among the Imams of the Najdi Dawah; Imam Muhammad ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab and his sons and grandsons

The questioner : Here, O Shaykh, there is an issue... regarding Imam Muhammad (may Allah have mercy on him) in matters of following a specific school of jurisprudence, yes? So we are presenting to you some excerpts that we promised to read from his words and the words of his followers, because your opinion, O Shaykh, on this matters greatly to us.

The Shaykh: She?

The questioner : In issues related to following a specific school of jurisprudence and sectarianism.

The Shaykh : May Allah bless you, please proceed. In any case, knowledge is spread among everyone.

The questioner : Yes, good; here, for example, in this book, I am quoting a text from the words ofThe Shaykh .

The Shaykh : ... please.

The questioner : ... "Al-Durar al-Saniyyah fi al-Ajwibat al-Najdiyyah" by "Abd al-Rahman ibn Qasim al-'Asimi al-Qahatani al-Najdi" (may Allah have mercy on him).

The Shaykh : It seems this edition is in another edition of it, perhaps?

The questioner : There are two editions; one at the Islamic Office, and one at Dar al-Kutub al-'Arabiyyah. Do you have this book?

The Shaykh : I do not have the copy, but it seems to me that this name is in my memory, yes.

The questioner : Good; so for example, here from the words ofThe Shaykh : Muhammad (may Allah have mercy on him) regarding sectarianism and following a specific school of jurisprudence, for example, he says: "And the conclusion is: Is the image of the issue that it is obligatory for every Muslim to seek knowledge of what Allah revealed to His Messenger, and no one is excused for leaving it at all? Or is it obligatory for him to follow 'Al-Tuhfah,' for example? Know that the later scholars and their leaders among them, like Ibn al-Qayyim, have denied this to the utmost degree, and that it is a change of the religion of Allah, and they have provided evidence for this from what is too long to describe from the clear Book of Allah and from the words of His Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) which are clear to one whose heart Allah has illuminated. And those who permit it or make it obligatory cite weak doubts, but their greatest doubt, absolutely, is that we are not of the people of that—meaning: taking from the Book and the Sunnah—and we are not capable of it, and no one is capable of it except the mujtahid; .
The people of knowledge have what can fill a volume in refuting this doubt, and the clearest of it is the saying of Allah (Glorified and Exalted is He): , and the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) explained it in the hadith of 'Adi with what you are upon today in the principles and branches. I do not know that they add to you the weight of a mustard seed, rather they clarify the truth of His saying: etc. And the exegetes also explained it, and I do not know of any disagreement among them, and the best of it is what Abu al-'Aliyyah said: "As for them, they did not worship them, and if they had ordered them to do so, they would not have obeyed them, but they found the Book of Allah and said: We will not precede our scholars with anything; and what they ordered us to do, we did, and what they forbade us, we stopped."
The questioner: This is from the words ofThe Shaykh : , and his words are numerous in this issue up to page 37 and around page 34, and also from the words of some of the contemporary scholars of his from his followers on page 63, for example, he says: "As for what you asked about, 'And as for the reality of ijtihad, we are followers of the Book and the Sunnah and the righteous Salaf of the Ummah, and what is relied upon from the sayings of the four Imams: Abu Hanifa al-Nu'man ibn Thabit, Malik ibn Anas, Muhammad ibn Idris, and Ibn Hanbal (may Allah have mercy on them),' then he mentioned words. Yes, and also from the words ofThe Shaykh : Muhammad ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab, also, on page 65, for example, I do not repeat it because it has passed from his words.
The questioner: And on page, for example, 122, from the words of the sons ofThe Shaykh : , who are Muhammad, Husayn, and 'Abd Allah, he says: A section, or he says: "And the sons ofThe Shaykh : Muhammad, Husayn, and 'Abd Allah were asked about the creed ofThe Shaykh : in practice in worship; so they answered: The creed ofThe Shaykh : (may Allah have mercy on him) by which he worships Allah is our creed and our religion by which we worship Allah, and it is the creed of the Salaf of the Ummah and their Imams from the Companions and those who followed them with excellence, and it is following what the evidence indicates from the Book of Allah (Glorified and Exalted is He) and the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him), and presenting the sayings of the scholars to that, so what agreed with the Book of Allah and the Sunnah of His Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) we accepted and issued rulings with it, and what contradicted that we returned to its speaker.
The questioner: And this is the principle by which Allah commanded us in His Book, where He said: the verse. The exegetes agreed that returning to Allah is returning to His Book, and that returning to the Messenger is returning to him in his lifetime, and to his Sunnah after his death, and the evidences for this principle are numerous in the Book and the Sunnah, this is not the place to elaborate on them."
The questioner: Then he mentioned words, also, that agree with this, and also he mentioned words that agree with this, and also the words ofThe Shaykh : 'Abd Allah, his son, also, similar to this, and also from the words of the scholar Muhammad ibn 'Abd al-Latif ibnThe Shaykh : , one of their grandsons, on page 290, for example:
The questioner: "And as for our madhhab, it is the madhhab of Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal, the Imam of the people of the Sunnah in the branches and rulings, and we do not claim ijtihad, and if a sound Sunnah from the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) becomes clear to us, we act by it, and we do not prefer over it the saying of anyone, whoever he may be, rather we receive it with acceptance and submission; because the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) is in our hearts more noble and greater than that we prefer over it the saying of anyone; this is what we believe and by which we worship Allah, so whoever attributes to us the contrary of that, or fabricates against us what we did not say, upon him is the curse of Allah and the angels and all of mankind, Allah does not accept from him any turning or straightening, and our account and his account are with Allah, in whose presence secrets are revealed and the hidden things of hearts and consciences appear , Allah is sufficient for us and He is the best Disposer of affairs."
The questioner: And here there are many texts, also, from Ibn 'Umar and others, I do not want to lengthen it for you by mentioning them, rather these are examples and there is what is more explicit and clearer than them, also, O Shaykh, in an issue where someone might say: that they leave the madhhab in agreement with Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah (may Allah have mercy on him) or Ibn al-Qayyim; Shaykh Muhammad (may Allah have mercy on him) has words in this issue, and also his son 'Abd Allah says—summarizing the words, I do not want to lengthen it for you—he says:
The questioner: "And as for the two Shaykhs, Ibn al-Qayyim and Ibn Taymiyyah (may Allah have mercy on them both), they are Imams of truth and justice with us, but we do not follow them in every issue, so if the evidence becomes clear to us, we say with it, we contradict with it—meaning he intends we say, words similar to this.
The questioner: Is that all, O Shaykh? This is in the issue of following a specific school of jurisprudence until time catches up with us...The Shaykh : 'Abd Allah ibn... (may Allah have mercy on him), so I quoted to you their sayings, those who preceded them and those who came after, meaning for the Shaykh (may Allah have mercy on him), and his grandsons, and the grandsons of his grandsons, and also the Imams of the Dawah, also, and also in relation to the issue of declaring someone a disbeliever by generalization; I saw that most of the treatises ofThe Shaykh : (may Allah have mercy on him) mention this issue and address it, and refute this doubt that was... the opponents ofThe Shaykh : (may Allah have mercy on him) that they declare people disbelievers by generalization and...

The Shaykh : Is it possible, before moving to this second issue, that we pause a little on some phrases related to the first issue? Do you not see a difference between the phrase of Muhammad ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab and some of his followers?

The questioner : Do you mean the saying ofThe Shaykh : 'Abd Allah ibn 'Abd al-Latif that we are on the madhhab of Imam Ahmad, and if we find the evidence, we say with it?

The Shaykh : Do you not see a difference between this and that?

The questioner : O Shaykh, I see it as not very influential in this issue of sectarianism that I mean.

The Shaykh : No, that is not sufficient for me, it is sufficient for me that following a specific school of jurisprudence is an abomination.

The questioner : Absolutely?

The Shaykh : Yes, of course, it is not from the general people but from the people of knowledge; therefore, the phrase of Imam Muhammad ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab, if we do not say it is more correct than the phrase of 'Abd Allah, did I say this?

The questioner : He is the son of 'Abd al-Latif...

The Shaykh : If we do not say "the most correct" here, then "the most precise" is the better expression; because there, he made the methodology one of returning to the Book and the Sunnah, and he considered the Imams equal in his view; whereas this one singled out the madhhab of Imam Ahmad for following. This is the fanaticism, and although fanaticism has degrees, there is no doubt about that. We know, for example, from the reality of the lives of the muqallids today that their fanaticism differs greatly; some of the muqallids do not deviate from their madhhab by a hair's breadth, while others depart from the madhhab at the slightest opportunity, especially if they find a dispensation or something similar in worldly interests. There are ranks and ranks, and we have no need to go into detail. Some of them say: "I do not follow a specific madhhab; this is what we hold Allah to be accountable for." Because we distinguish between taqlid (following a scholar without knowing his evidence) and adopting taqlid as a methodology. We see that taqlid is something from which no one among the scholars can be saved, let alone those below them. But no scholar among them adopts the taqlid of a specific Imam as a religion by which he draws near to Allah (Blessed and Exalted is He). And here comes the statement of Muhammad ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab (may Allah have mercy on him) when he referred to His saying (the Exalted): .
There is a great difference between one who follows a madhhab and then departs from it slightly when he finds himself facing a verse or a hadith, and one who says—and our words are not to be misunderstood regarding the scholars, not regarding the common people—there is a difference between a scholar who adopts one of the four madhahib, whether it is the first, the second, the third, or the fourth, which is the madhhab of Ahmad, and one who says: "I—meaning the scholar—do not follow a specific madhhab, but rather we follow the Book wherever it is, in any madhhab." This methodology, when we look at it, we are now describing it with few words, but its application is what confirms that this process is very important. That is to say, a scholar who lives his life moving between the madhahib following the evidence, and a scholar who relied on the madhhab that appealed to him or that he found his fathers and grandfathers upon. So whenever it happened that he saw, for example, an issue that contradicted the Quran or the hadith, he acted upon it, but he does not look at whether this madhhab, which he holds as his religion in all these branches he has lived through for many years, is in accordance with the Book and the Sunnah or in contradiction to the Book and the Sunnah? This is the difference between one who adopted the madhhab as a religion, but not entirely, but he says there that he is more pious to Allah (Mighty and Majestic) to establish for himself that a certain issue of his madhhab contradicted the Book and the Sunnah, so he says: "No, I do not follow the Book and the Sunnah." Then the verse applies to him perfectly. As for Muhammad ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab, his expression is very explicit, and this is what we call upon the scholars to be upon this word on a straight path: that the foundation of the Shari'ah is not that he is a Hanafi, so if it is established for him that an issue of his madhhab contradicted the Sunnah, he followed it and left his madhhab; and the rest of the verse is measured by that. If the scholars had walked for all these long centuries on what Muhammad ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab mentioned, there would no longer be an existence for the four madhahib, but every group held fast to the madhhab of their Imam, and then time passed and made them stricter in holding fast to taqlid until the followers of the madhahib became sects and parties, and the matter reached the point where they refused to pray behind one another, and this is a known thing, and I have noticed this paradox.

The questioner : All right, Shaykh, do you not see a difference in following the Imam in the principles of the madhhab between one who follows him even in the branches of the madhhab?

The Shaykh : Of course, there is a difference, but this difference is also governed by the same rule; meaning that the principles must be studied based on the principles of the Book and the Sunnah, it is the same thing, but without a doubt there is a clear difference between following him in the principles and the branches and limiting the following of him to the branches without the principles.

The questioner : I mean, Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah (may Allah have mercy on him) and Ibn al-Qayim, were they not on this method of following the principles of the madhhab?

The Shaykh : Yes, yes, he was on this method; and therefore the difference appeared between what they went to in dozens of issues and what the Hanbalis are upon until today.

The Shaykh : Yes, and for this reason, Shaykh, Ibn Taymiyyah says many times: "The companions said," and "Our companions said," and "This is the madhhab of the companions," right, Shaykh? Yes, yes.

The Shaykh: Correct.

The questioner : All right; what do we say: is the statement ofThe Shaykh : 'Abd Allah ibn 'Abd al-Latif (may Allah have mercy on him) to be understood as his intention or as the matter we mentioned first, which is following him in the principles of the madhhab?

The Shaykh : We should say: it should be understood as the one to which it is applied—meaning the statement of Muhammad ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab—being applied by the others in a practical way. And as we said, we spoke in a previous session, and as far as I know, I did not find it.

The questioner : Yes, yes, I can give you... these statements, in all of them, the matter I mentioned to you previously regarding the intensity of the combat. For this reason, they used to call them, they used to say, "You claim for yourselves ijtihad (independent legal reasoning), and you claim that you have reached its rank, and you take directly from the Book and the Sunnah." This is the speech of their opponents at that time, and this is without a doubt, also, despite the intensity of their following.

The Shaykh : No... because, for example, in the Levant, there is no connection between a Levantine and a Najdi. The mere fact that one says, "I follow the Book and the Sunnah," he is attributed to being a Najdi. We do not want the testimony of the ignorant or the liars, but what we want is to see this sound methodology, which is free from blemish, applied in their books. For example, how many books of the Hanbalis have they published and printed, and so on! Where are these scholars who apply this methodology when these books are printed? That is, as the previous and subsequent authors placed them, and so on. Very few of those you see who are on this methodology apply it practically. Therefore, I am not as concerned with the call as I am with the application of this call, which is correct. You know that many of the scholars of the present era do not contradict our call when we say: it is obligatory to return to the Book and the Sunnah; because no one can deny that this is the obligation. But if you study their knowledge and their fatwas and so on, their prayers and their acts of worship, you will find them as they came in their madhhab. So it is not enough, may Allah bless you, to have just the claim, but the more important thing is applying the claim to the action, or conversely, applying the action to the claim; as is the known rule now: forbidding evil in His saying (the Exalted): . So this is sound speech if this last statement is applied to my first statement: the call is correct, but we must spread among the people and announce to them that this requires application, otherwise many scholars agree with the rule and then contradict it.

The questioner : These... to it, and they make it a point of research with their opponents, and they ally and enemy in their call, and I have their texts in this.

The Shaykh : May Allah bless you, let us be frank; how many scholars do you have today who call to this call? They can be counted on the fingers, and if we do not say one hand, then both hands. So we want it to be a practical call accompanied by action, and Allah is the Helper.

The questioner : I am speaking aboutThe Shaykh : Muhammad and his grandsons who spread the call, these are the ones who concern us.

The Shaykh : No problem, I return and say: we must place this call applied practically in his books, and especially according to the expression of Muhammad ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab; meaning if he writes a book in fiqh (Islamic jurisprudence), he does not write a book in Hanbali fiqh, but rather he writes a book in Muhammadan fiqh, if the expression is correct.