What is your opinion on defining justice as: "It is the presumption of the narrator's truthfulness"?
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The questioner : If we say: It is the presumption of the narrator's truthfulness, and this includes, for example, the innovator and others of what I mentioned just now.
The Shaykh : Presumption of what?
The questioner : The narrator's truthfulness; justice. What is your opinion on this definition: the presumption of the narrator's truthfulness? To define justice as: the presumption of the narrator's truthfulness? When?
The Shaykh : Truthfulness, too, is not sufficient, my brother; because the witness must be truthful, and this does not make him just. The important point in distinguishing between narration and testimony is memory and precision, not truthfulness; truthfulness is obligatory in both matters; or is it not clear? That is, a person wants to testify that he saw so-and-so doing such-and-such; is it not required that he be truthful?
The questioner : No, it is not required in justice.
The Shaykh : Leave me alone regarding justice, we are talking about the witness, the witness. He wants to say: I saw so-and-so hitting so-and-so, or taking so-and-so's money; is it not required that he be truthful?
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : Yes, for that reason, did we reach that point?
The questioner : By Allah, I do not know.
The Shaykh : Be patient with me, please...
The questioner : ... For his report to be accepted, it is required that he be truthful, meaning.
The Shaykh : Glory to Allah! I am not talking about the report, my brother, I am telling you: a person testified that so-and-so hit so-and-so, or so-and-so took so-and-so's money, he testified; is it not required that he be truthful?
The questioner: It is not a condition.
The Shaykh : ... You know...
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : ... Truthfulness is required in the witness and in the narrator, but the difference is in terms of being known as one who is precise and has a good memory; because this narrator who is precise and has a good memory, his mind is filled with many, by the tens, by the hundreds, by the thousands of narrations, this must be what? Strong in precision, whereas this witness saw an incident, this is easy for him to convey as he saw it, but it is required that he be truthful, not a liar, but it is not required of him what is required of the narrator who memorizes many, many narrations, so as they say, for example: so-and-so is weak; why? Because he used to connect the disconnected, he used to elevate the stopped, or stop the elevated, and so on; why does he do this? Because the many narrations that filled his mind get mixed up for him, and he does not have that strong precision and memory, so he is included with the weak ones who are not relied upon, then these are divided into two categories; some of them make many mistakes; so it is said: he is very weak, not to be cited, some of them do not make many, so it is said: he is to be cited, but sometimes they say: so-and-so lies, so-and-so does such-and-such, but the first category, they say: he is truthful, he does not lie, but as Ibn Hiban says in many of his biographies, he says: that he was a righteous man, but he narrated denunciations or from the trustworthy ones, and brought falsehoods from such-and-such, and so on, not intentionally; because he was righteous; meaning: he was truthful in himself.
The Shaykh : Presumption of what?
The questioner : The narrator's truthfulness; justice. What is your opinion on this definition: the presumption of the narrator's truthfulness? To define justice as: the presumption of the narrator's truthfulness? When?
The Shaykh : Truthfulness, too, is not sufficient, my brother; because the witness must be truthful, and this does not make him just. The important point in distinguishing between narration and testimony is memory and precision, not truthfulness; truthfulness is obligatory in both matters; or is it not clear? That is, a person wants to testify that he saw so-and-so doing such-and-such; is it not required that he be truthful?
The questioner : No, it is not required in justice.
The Shaykh : Leave me alone regarding justice, we are talking about the witness, the witness. He wants to say: I saw so-and-so hitting so-and-so, or taking so-and-so's money; is it not required that he be truthful?
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : Yes, for that reason, did we reach that point?
The questioner : By Allah, I do not know.
The Shaykh : Be patient with me, please...
The questioner : ... For his report to be accepted, it is required that he be truthful, meaning.
The Shaykh : Glory to Allah! I am not talking about the report, my brother, I am telling you: a person testified that so-and-so hit so-and-so, or so-and-so took so-and-so's money, he testified; is it not required that he be truthful?
The questioner: It is not a condition.
The Shaykh : ... You know...
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : ... Truthfulness is required in the witness and in the narrator, but the difference is in terms of being known as one who is precise and has a good memory; because this narrator who is precise and has a good memory, his mind is filled with many, by the tens, by the hundreds, by the thousands of narrations, this must be what? Strong in precision, whereas this witness saw an incident, this is easy for him to convey as he saw it, but it is required that he be truthful, not a liar, but it is not required of him what is required of the narrator who memorizes many, many narrations, so as they say, for example: so-and-so is weak; why? Because he used to connect the disconnected, he used to elevate the stopped, or stop the elevated, and so on; why does he do this? Because the many narrations that filled his mind get mixed up for him, and he does not have that strong precision and memory, so he is included with the weak ones who are not relied upon, then these are divided into two categories; some of them make many mistakes; so it is said: he is very weak, not to be cited, some of them do not make many, so it is said: he is to be cited, but sometimes they say: so-and-so lies, so-and-so does such-and-such, but the first category, they say: he is truthful, he does not lie, but as Ibn Hiban says in many of his biographies, he says: that he was a righteous man, but he narrated denunciations or from the trustworthy ones, and brought falsehoods from such-and-such, and so on, not intentionally; because he was righteous; meaning: he was truthful in himself.
Source
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