We were told that you say: Standing in the prayer is a pillar; what is the evidence for that? And the discussion of the issue of consensus.
Machine translationRead the Arabic original
The questioner : We were told that you say that standing in the prayer is a pillar.
The Shaykh: What is it?
The questioner : We were told that you say that standing in the prayer is a pillar without which the prayer does not stand.
The Shaykh : All the talk I said when I asked you: What do you mean? Standing?
The questioner : Standing, yes.
The Shaykh : Standing in the prayer.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Of course, and who says otherwise?
The questioner : ... The evidence for this?
The Shaykh : The evidence for this?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : The consensus of the Ummah, along with the known commands in the Book and the Sunnah; is that enough for you?
The questioner : Consensus, I said: In the time of the Companions or now?
The Shaykh : Until today.
The questioner : Meaning the Companions agreed on this.
The Shaykh : Until today.
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : But you have a doubt or a knot regarding the consensus here, what do you think?
The questioner : Shaykh, by Allah, I, if something is apparent to you, clarify it for us.
The Shaykh : No, but if something is apparent to me and it is wrong, correct it for me before I clarify it to you.
The questioner : ... The consensus at this time, and even if ... .
The Shaykh : I did not ... now at this time for you to restrict it, I did not restrict it! Until I correct my understanding ... finish my sentence.
The questioner : Please, Shaykh.
The Shaykh : Yes, but did you accept that I am correct in what I said?
The questioner : ... The problem I have.
The Shaykh : You have a problem with the consensus; that it is possible for consensus to occur or is it not possible?
The questioner : How is it not possible?
The Shaykh : Okay, is it possible?
The questioner: Of course.
The Shaykh : Meaning in every era, in every century?
The questioner: No.
The Shaykh : Ha! This is the problem, we have returned to it!
Another questioner : I believe it is possible.
The Shaykh : So you want the consensus that ... in it is only the consensus of the Companions, correct?
The questioner : The Companions and the Successors and those whose consensus can be transmitted.
The Shaykh : Okay, chain it then; the Companions and the Successors and their followers.
Another questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : Okay?
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : Okay, let us return to the first consensus; you said the word: possible; what does that mean?
The questioner : Meaning their statements in matters of religion are known, transmitted, and available, it is possible ... or knowing the dissenter and the agreeer.
The Shaykh : Yes, do you imagine what you are saying or are you saying it as al-Shawkani and others said?
The questioner : By Allah, I am saying something that you can verify, al-Shawkani said ... you can verify it.
The Shaykh : It is not important, just tell me now; do you imagine this thing?
The questioner : Of course, I imagine it.
The Shaykh : Is it possible, meaning, explain the topic to me as you imagine it? Or I will make it easy for you; how about that? I do not want to embarrass you, but if you have such a thing ready, easy, then throw it out, otherwise I will start the topic.
The questioner: Go ahead.
The Shaykh : How is it possible to know the consensus of the Companions when you know that they were scattered before the Islamic conquests, let alone after them; is this statement correct?
The questioner : Most of it is correct.
The Shaykh : Can you clarify to me what is not correct?
The questioner : And how is it possible? This is possible.
The Shaykh : How?
The questioner : Because.
The Shaykh : If not ... correct ... .
The questioner : ... scattered ... .
The Shaykh : Yes, we will make the topic easier, before the scattering due to the conquests; were they gathered in one place? In one region?
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : In one town?
The questioner : When it was ... certainly not.
The Shaykh : Okay, so how is it possible for us to know, with their scattering in these lands before the greater scattering; how is it possible for us to know that they agreed on a certain statement first? Second: Who is the intermediary in the topic? Who is the one who meets with the individual Companions in all the lands before the conquests; is this possible?
The questioner : Here there is no one person who met with all the Companions, but.
The Shaykh : I ask you; is this possible?
The questioner : One person, certainly not.
The Shaykh : Okay, ten?
The questioner : A group, without specification, ten, twenty, a group of people.
The Shaykh : No problem.
The questioner : ... the Successors.
The Shaykh : ... like they say in the mass-transmitted hadith, there are many statements, you can take the lowest number, as long as you are saying: a group; it means you want to dilute the topic.
The questioner : Because it is a reality.
The Shaykh : No problem, what is the reality? The reality, you say - for example - : two, two is possible ... - for example -, you say: no, five, say whatever you want, say the number that you are satisfied with in your heart; because we intended now to clarify the possible consensus, whereas this consensus is an imaginary, impossible consensus, this consensus is like the phoenix; a name without a body; why? For two reasons:
First: The Companions did not gather in one place, and this is certain; especially after the Islamic conquests; especially after the death of the Messenger (peace be upon him); where after the death the Muslims are in need of consensus, before the death the Messenger (peace be upon him) is present, and he is clarifying the rulings and the like for them, so the fact that the Companions were scattered in the lands before the conquests, let alone after the conquests; this scattering makes the intellect rule that it is not possible for one or two people - take whatever number you want - to connect with every individual of the Companions, and then we find each one agreeing with the other, and then these people transmit this transmission to those after them; there are very difficult obstacles!! But I will make the matter easier for you; this imagination, we do not tire ourselves by imagining it and obliging ourselves to believe in it; because belief in a non-existent thing, but the consensus is what Allah mentioned in the Qur'an:[An-Nisa 4:115] .
So the path that the Companions or their followers or the followers of their followers took is this consensus, not the consensus that I am discussing with you and telling you: this is an illusion and cannot be transmitted, but their reality - and this reality - sometimes is practical, sometimes is one or two of the known scholars among them who said a statement and everyone followed it; so this is consensus, so the problem does not apply to this consensus; and for this reason Imam al-Shafi'i (may Allah have mercy on him) used this verse as evidence for the consensus.
And on this basis, we just look for two Companions, and the more Allah blesses the number, the more reassured the soul is, we ... we put our feet in cold water as long as this statement that came from the Companion and the second and more ... has no contradictor to the Book or the hadith; at that time , and we imagine that this is the path that the Companions followed. There is disagreement; the known verse in the Qur'an comes: [An-Nisa 4:59] .
On this basis, until today, the scholars of the Muslims consider standing like prostration a pillar of the pillars of the prayer, we do not know of a disagreement among them; whoever wants to deviate from these has opposed the path of the believers, this is the evidence; perhaps it has become clear?
The questioner : All right, may Allah reward you with good.
The Shaykh : And beware of that.
Another questioner : Is it not possible ... to take from the statement of the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) the hadith of the one who prays poorly: that standing is a pillar of the pillars of the prayer for this hadith?!
The Shaykh : No, it is not possible.
Do you have the hadith memorized?
The questioner : Yes, I have it memorized.
The Shaykh : You have it memorized; bring it so we can see what you have memorized of it?
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : No, no, the text of the Messenger.
The questioner :Sahih al-Bukhari 757 .
The Shaykh : Okay, and then?
The questioner :Sahih Muslim 397a .
The Shaykh: All right.
The questioner : .
...
The Shaykh : ... the place of argument in it, ; so there is a deficiency in the prayer here.
The questioner : Not invalidation.
The Shaykh : Yes.
And then the hadith of the one who prays poorly has several narrations, so in them are things that were not mentioned in this context, they were mentioned in another context;Sunan Abi Dawud 1304Hasan (Al-Albani) .
The questioner : They brought another hadith: ... .
The Shaykh : ... I did not ask you ... or no, but I am asking you: Does this hadith, the hadith of the one who prays poorly, indicate that the pillar is reading what is easy from the Qur'an?
The questioner : No, this hadith does not ... .
The Shaykh : So you have refuted your own claim!
...
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : This is a contradiction ... in the issue? Meaning in one place in the hadith, in a part of it, you say: this indicates the pillar status, in another part you say: it does not indicate the pillar status?
The questioner : No, the hadiths ... .
The Shaykh : We discussed, your question is about the hadith of the one who prays poorly.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Not about the sum of the hadiths, if it were about the sum of the hadiths, then the indication would change.
There is no god but You, glory be to You, indeed I have been of the wrongdoers.
The Shaykh: What is it?
The questioner : We were told that you say that standing in the prayer is a pillar without which the prayer does not stand.
The Shaykh : All the talk I said when I asked you: What do you mean? Standing?
The questioner : Standing, yes.
The Shaykh : Standing in the prayer.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Of course, and who says otherwise?
The questioner : ... The evidence for this?
The Shaykh : The evidence for this?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : The consensus of the Ummah, along with the known commands in the Book and the Sunnah; is that enough for you?
The questioner : Consensus, I said: In the time of the Companions or now?
The Shaykh : Until today.
The questioner : Meaning the Companions agreed on this.
The Shaykh : Until today.
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : But you have a doubt or a knot regarding the consensus here, what do you think?
The questioner : Shaykh, by Allah, I, if something is apparent to you, clarify it for us.
The Shaykh : No, but if something is apparent to me and it is wrong, correct it for me before I clarify it to you.
The questioner : ... The consensus at this time, and even if ... .
The Shaykh : I did not ... now at this time for you to restrict it, I did not restrict it! Until I correct my understanding ... finish my sentence.
The questioner : Please, Shaykh.
The Shaykh : Yes, but did you accept that I am correct in what I said?
The questioner : ... The problem I have.
The Shaykh : You have a problem with the consensus; that it is possible for consensus to occur or is it not possible?
The questioner : How is it not possible?
The Shaykh : Okay, is it possible?
The questioner: Of course.
The Shaykh : Meaning in every era, in every century?
The questioner: No.
The Shaykh : Ha! This is the problem, we have returned to it!
Another questioner : I believe it is possible.
The Shaykh : So you want the consensus that ... in it is only the consensus of the Companions, correct?
The questioner : The Companions and the Successors and those whose consensus can be transmitted.
The Shaykh : Okay, chain it then; the Companions and the Successors and their followers.
Another questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : Okay?
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : Okay, let us return to the first consensus; you said the word: possible; what does that mean?
The questioner : Meaning their statements in matters of religion are known, transmitted, and available, it is possible ... or knowing the dissenter and the agreeer.
The Shaykh : Yes, do you imagine what you are saying or are you saying it as al-Shawkani and others said?
The questioner : By Allah, I am saying something that you can verify, al-Shawkani said ... you can verify it.
The Shaykh : It is not important, just tell me now; do you imagine this thing?
The questioner : Of course, I imagine it.
The Shaykh : Is it possible, meaning, explain the topic to me as you imagine it? Or I will make it easy for you; how about that? I do not want to embarrass you, but if you have such a thing ready, easy, then throw it out, otherwise I will start the topic.
The questioner: Go ahead.
The Shaykh : How is it possible to know the consensus of the Companions when you know that they were scattered before the Islamic conquests, let alone after them; is this statement correct?
The questioner : Most of it is correct.
The Shaykh : Can you clarify to me what is not correct?
The questioner : And how is it possible? This is possible.
The Shaykh : How?
The questioner : Because.
The Shaykh : If not ... correct ... .
The questioner : ... scattered ... .
The Shaykh : Yes, we will make the topic easier, before the scattering due to the conquests; were they gathered in one place? In one region?
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : In one town?
The questioner : When it was ... certainly not.
The Shaykh : Okay, so how is it possible for us to know, with their scattering in these lands before the greater scattering; how is it possible for us to know that they agreed on a certain statement first? Second: Who is the intermediary in the topic? Who is the one who meets with the individual Companions in all the lands before the conquests; is this possible?
The questioner : Here there is no one person who met with all the Companions, but.
The Shaykh : I ask you; is this possible?
The questioner : One person, certainly not.
The Shaykh : Okay, ten?
The questioner : A group, without specification, ten, twenty, a group of people.
The Shaykh : No problem.
The questioner : ... the Successors.
The Shaykh : ... like they say in the mass-transmitted hadith, there are many statements, you can take the lowest number, as long as you are saying: a group; it means you want to dilute the topic.
The questioner : Because it is a reality.
The Shaykh : No problem, what is the reality? The reality, you say - for example - : two, two is possible ... - for example -, you say: no, five, say whatever you want, say the number that you are satisfied with in your heart; because we intended now to clarify the possible consensus, whereas this consensus is an imaginary, impossible consensus, this consensus is like the phoenix; a name without a body; why? For two reasons:
First: The Companions did not gather in one place, and this is certain; especially after the Islamic conquests; especially after the death of the Messenger (peace be upon him); where after the death the Muslims are in need of consensus, before the death the Messenger (peace be upon him) is present, and he is clarifying the rulings and the like for them, so the fact that the Companions were scattered in the lands before the conquests, let alone after the conquests; this scattering makes the intellect rule that it is not possible for one or two people - take whatever number you want - to connect with every individual of the Companions, and then we find each one agreeing with the other, and then these people transmit this transmission to those after them; there are very difficult obstacles!! But I will make the matter easier for you; this imagination, we do not tire ourselves by imagining it and obliging ourselves to believe in it; because belief in a non-existent thing, but the consensus is what Allah mentioned in the Qur'an:
And whoever opposes the Messenger after guidance has become clear to him and follows other than the way of the believers - We will give him what he has taken and drive him into Hell, and evil it is as a destination.
وَمَنْ يُشَاقِقِ الرَّسُولَ مِنْ بَعْدِ مَا تَبَيَّنَ لَهُ الْهُدَى وَيَتَّبِعْ غَيْرَ سَبِيلِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ نُوَلِّهِ مَا تَوَلَّى وَنُصْلِهِ جَهَنَّمَ وَسَاءَتْ مَصِيرًاSo the path that the Companions or their followers or the followers of their followers took is this consensus, not the consensus that I am discussing with you and telling you: this is an illusion and cannot be transmitted, but their reality - and this reality - sometimes is practical, sometimes is one or two of the known scholars among them who said a statement and everyone followed it; so this is consensus, so the problem does not apply to this consensus; and for this reason Imam al-Shafi'i (may Allah have mercy on him) used this verse as evidence for the consensus.
And on this basis, we just look for two Companions, and the more Allah blesses the number, the more reassured the soul is, we ... we put our feet in cold water as long as this statement that came from the Companion and the second and more ... has no contradictor to the Book or the hadith; at that time
So follow their guidance
فَبِهُدَاهُمُ اقْتَدِهْAnd if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger
فَإِنْ تَنَازَعْتُمْ فِي شَيْءٍ فَرُدُّوهُ إِلَى اللَّهِ وَالرَّسُولِOn this basis, until today, the scholars of the Muslims consider standing like prostration a pillar of the pillars of the prayer, we do not know of a disagreement among them; whoever wants to deviate from these has opposed the path of the believers, this is the evidence; perhaps it has become clear?
The questioner : All right, may Allah reward you with good.
The Shaykh : And beware of that.
Another questioner : Is it not possible ... to take from the statement of the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) the hadith of the one who prays poorly:
When you stand up for prayer, say the takbir
إذا قمت للصلاة فكبِّرThe Shaykh : No, it is not possible.
Do you have the hadith memorized?
The questioner : Yes, I have it memorized.
The Shaykh : You have it memorized; bring it so we can see what you have memorized of it?
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : No, no, the text of the Messenger.
The questioner :
When you stand for Prayer say Takbir
إذا قمت إلى الصلاة فكبِّرThe Shaykh : Okay, and then?
The questioner :
and then recite whatever you conveniently can from the Qur'an
ثم اقرأ ما تيسَّر معك من القرآنThe Shaykh: All right.
The questioner :
Then ...
ثم ......
The Shaykh : ... the place of argument in it,
If you do that, your prayer is complete, and if you diminish any of that, you have diminished your prayer
فإن أنت فعلت ذلك فقد تمَّت صلاتك ، وإن أنت أنقصت من ذلك فقد أنقصت من صلاتكThe questioner : Not invalidation.
The Shaykh : Yes.
And then the hadith of the one who prays poorly has several narrations, so in them are things that were not mentioned in this context, they were mentioned in another context;
Recite then of the Qur'an that which is easy for you
ثم فاقرأ ما تيسَّر من القرآنThe questioner : They brought another hadith:
Whoever does not recite the opening of the Book, his prayer is deficient, his prayer is deficient, his prayer is deficient
من لم يقرأ بفاتحة الكتاب فصلاته خداج ، فصلاته خداج ، فصلاته خداجThe Shaykh : ... I did not ask you ... or no, but I am asking you: Does this hadith, the hadith of the one who prays poorly, indicate that the pillar is reading what is easy from the Qur'an?
The questioner : No, this hadith does not ... .
The Shaykh : So you have refuted your own claim!
...
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : This is a contradiction ... in the issue? Meaning in one place in the hadith, in a part of it, you say: this indicates the pillar status, in another part you say: it does not indicate the pillar status?
The questioner : No, the hadiths ... .
The Shaykh : We discussed, your question is about the hadith of the one who prays poorly.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Not about the sum of the hadiths, if it were about the sum of the hadiths, then the indication would change.
There is no god but You, glory be to You, indeed I have been of the wrongdoers.
Source
www.al-albany.com
The Arabic text is copied verbatim from the original source, without any edits.