What is the ruling on opening a bank account without depositing any money in it, but only using its number in a commercial transaction or the like?
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Abu Layla : I once asked you a question regarding check transactions, if you remember, and you told me that I must fear Allah and never deal with the bank. I followed a new path, and praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds, and I succeeded in it. I always keep my balance in the bank. Currently, I have a number at the bank because I need to... take from it little by little through the number, but I do not keep a balance. I take a checkbook from the bank, and I give every merchant a check dated for their specific date. As for me, I go to them and give them the price, or they come to me and take the price. I use the check paper, but this is only for a temporary period. I proposed a new clause to them: that I would give you a paper from me, which would be a check, for example, written as "Cairo Bank" or "Islamic Bank." I would print my name or the shop's name on a special stamp and write "Witness" and "Witness" underneath. Of course, this can be traded; or it is only deducted from those who owe me or from me... Many merchants agreed to this, of course, due to their trust in me. Regarding my account number at the bank
The Shaykh : Number
Abu Layla : My account number currently, I do not keep it. There might be half a dinar or a dinar in it. Sometimes, some merchants are trading with their checks to unknown people, so I am forced to go with today's date or keep it with the bank, because sometimes it is delayed. For example, if the check date is 15/5, when the check reaches the bank, it takes four or five days to clear, so I am also reluctant to go deposit it
The questioner: On the date 15/5, I agreed with the bank employee that when the check reaches him, he would call me, and I would give him the price immediately, on the basis that I do not have a balance with them to incur sin in it.
The Shaykh : It seems there is a gap in your speech, which can be removed by answering the question
The Shaykh: The following: When did you start with this idea and this solution? Approximately two Fridays ago.
Abu Layla : No, I when I asked you
The Shaykh : The best answer is what is brief and clear. Two Fridays ago.
Abu Layla : A long time, more than four months.
The Shaykh : Okay, four months. In these four months, did you not have a single qirsh in the bank?
Abu Layla : I do not keep any money in the bank at all. I try my best not to keep anything, and surely I do not keep any.
The Shaykh : You try, but during these four months, did not a single qirsh enter the bank?
Abu Layla : I told you when it enters, but of course, it is present.
The Shaykh : What has passed, I told you. Now I am telling you frankly that there is a gap in your speech, and I either want to show it to you or close it, so that the solution to your operation appears, or it remains as we say, "stay in your place." Now answer me clearly: in these four months, did not a single qirsh of your money enter the bank?
Abu Layla : Of course, it entered, and I put money in to cover...
The Shaykh : So? The matter is not resolved. In other words, if a year passes and not a single qirsh enters the bank, will your operation with the banks continue? I do not think so.
Abu Layla : The account will be frozen.
The Shaykh : The operation will continue.
Abu Layla : It will continue in my way, and I will reach the correct thing.
The Shaykh : My brother, leave me the "correct thing." How does your operation continue when you do not have a single qirsh in the bank for a whole year, and the bank is a material bank, not a Sharia-compliant one? So when it sees a person who does not transfer his money to the bank or feed it, I imagine they would fire him in three...
Abu Layla : I told him this story yesterday.
The Shaykh : What do you think of this speech?
Abu Layla : Yesterday, he called the brother...
The Shaykh : My brother, give the answer. May Allah guide you. What do I want, yesterday's events or evening events, or whatever? Tell me, do you imagine with me that it would continue with them for years without a single qirsh of your money entering the bank?
Abu Layla : No, of course.
The Shaykh : Yes, that's it.
The questioner : If he did not put his money in the bank...
The Shaykh : This came at the end. We need to address the issue now, which is the idea that he is successful in, not that old one.
The questioner : No, the new one too.
The Shaykh : How is it new?
The questioner : What I am saying is, I just put in the check that arrives at that moment, this same check...
The Shaykh : But I am saying that this check did not enter the bank's box. You agreed with its owner that he would keep it and not put it in the box, is that not so?
Abu Layla : No; all of them enter these accounts.
The Shaykh : Then what is this friend of yours?
Abu Layla : No...
The Shaykh : Be patient for a moment.
Abu Layla : No, excuse me.
The Shaykh : Do not rush, and you need to speak. What did you think in your own mind? Understand what is in my mind and answer me. What did you benefit from this friend of yours? I understood that you benefited from him in that he kept the money and did not put it in the bank.
Abu Layla : Yes, usually the check reaches the bank and there is no balance, so it is immediately returned to the merchant. Of course, it is written on it "for lack of balance." This person calls me on the phone and tells me to send him money so that I can settle the check.
The Shaykh : If in this case, nothing entered the bank.Abu Layla : No, of course.
The Shaykh : Wait a moment, my brother! Your fever, let's finish with it. In this picture, nothing entered the bank.Abu Layla : Of course, it failed.
The Shaykh : My dear, tell me, did it enter or not? What entered or not?
Abu Layla : This is a coincidence... I am talking about the bank employee.
The Shaykh : What is my question? Be patient. What is my question?
Abu Layla : I am talking about the bank employee.
The Shaykh : Look, what is he saying?
The questioner : What is your question?
Abu Layla : If it entered the bank or not.
The Shaykh : My question is: did the money enter the bank or not? Answer this question.
Abu Layla : We gave the money to the bank employee, so it entered.
The Shaykh : Where did it enter? Did it enter or not?
Abu Layla : It entered with the employee.
Abu Layla : The bank employee put it in my balance and my account, then they took it out of my account number.
The questioner : I will explain it to you.
The Shaykh : No, no, I do not want you to explain it. I want to understand what entered the bank?
Abu Layla : The one hundred dinars I gave them to the bank employee, on the basis that the check reached the bank, so my card was delayed, and he found the balance to be zero or half a dinar. He said, "Send one hundred dinars so that I can settle the value of the check that came down." Of course, the amount entered the balance in my card and was taken out of my card.
The questioner : So it did not enter the treasury.
Abu Layla : Yes, it did not enter the treasury.
The Shaykh : This is what I wanted.
The questioner : No, that is wrong.
The Shaykh : Now I am teaching you... between his mistake...
The questioner : This money that the employee took, either he cashes it for the check owner, or he wants to put it in the check owner's account. If he puts it in the check owner's account, it will be helping this check owner in the sin.
The Shaykh : No
The questioner : How does he not want to use his money...
The Shaykh : Be patient. How did he help him?
The questioner : This man, whose friend gave him the check, has a balance in the bank, right? So this bank employee wants to record the one hundred dinars that this man paid in that man's balance.
Abu Layla : This is his right.
The questioner : Even if it is his right, but he used it in the bank. This man recorded it in the bank because this helped him in giving the check.
The Shaykh : If in this way, do you see that the transfer (hawala) is forbidden?
The questioner : The transfer.
The Shaykh : Yes, a transfer.
The questioner : And you say the transfer is not forbidden.
The Shaykh : What is the difference between this and that, and are you willing to show me the difference?
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Please go ahead.
The questioner : The difference with the transfer is that the transfer you receive it immediately. You do not record the transfer in the man's balance.
The Shaykh : Where immediately?
The questioner : No, here it is recorded in the balance.
The Shaykh : Where immediately, my dear son? In the Hijaz, I send one hundred dinars, and where did they come to me?
The questioner : ...
The Shaykh : Be patient. Where did this one hundred dinars enter?
The questioner : In the bank.
The Shaykh : Okay, be patient. How long did the one hundred dinars stay in the bank until it reached me?
The questioner : A week ago.
The Shaykh : And here, how long did it stay until it reached its owner?
The questioner : A moment.
The Shaykh : No. No. According to his statement, we now need to stick to his words. According to his statement, how long did it stay in the bank?
The questioner: One day.
The questioner : One day? Months?
The students: Five minutes, a quarter of an hour, until the transaction is finished.
The Shaykh : According to his explanation, you cannot live by your previous thinking regarding banks; that is a known issue. But now he is presenting a picture that is closest to a solution. However, as we said, at that moment I felt there was a flaw in his dealings. Do you see it? The flaw is that he must deposit something in the bank for his dealings with the bank to be acceptable. But in the point where you objected, no flaw appeared to me.
The questioner : He deposits.
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : He deposits.
The Shaykh : To clarify with another question: Do you see, within the limits of the picture he presented, and for which he is responsible, whether it is realistic or hypothetical, that the bank benefited from the one hundred dinars?
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : How? Be patient for a moment. I rushed. Do you think the bank benefited from the one hundred dinars?
Abu Layla : No, not at all. Because the bank’s requirement is to cash this check, and it wants its value from the merchant immediately. It comes in from here and goes out from here.
The Shaykh : Now, I am tricking him, considering that I am not a merchant and am incapable and ignorant of the matter, so you investigate with him.
The questioner : My Shaykh, I say the bank did not benefit from the money.
The Shaykh : Yes, exactly.
The questioner : How did it not benefit? Now, when the one hundred dinars reached the bank from you, did it not record it in that man’s account? Answer me, answer me: did it record it or not?
The Shaykh : I will answer you. I will put your mind at rest; no one will put your mind at rest like your Shaykh. I will put your mind at rest. I say: if the owner of the right to the one hundred dinars, belonging to our man, did not come immediately to take it, then the bank benefited. And conversely, if he did not come, it did not benefit. Do you agree with me?
The questioner : Yes, exactly.
The Shaykh : Okay, the picture he presented to me earlier was that that merchant would come to take this money on the same day.
The questioner : He did not say that, my Shaykh.
Abu Layla : Excuse me, allow me.
The Shaykh : O Abu Hashim, did he say it or not? I understood it this way. If that is the case, what is your opinion?
Abu Hashim: Correct.
The Shaykh : Now let us see if he said it or not.
Abu Layla : Allow me, my Shaykh. I used to spend about four thousand dinars a month. Currently, at the present time, I do not spend from the bank except three hundred dinars out of four thousand dinars. Of course, the three thousand seven hundred dinars come to me, and the merchants take their checks in cash. They come and give me the check, and I give them its value. Yesterday, the bank’s representative arrived and told me, “You do not have enough for every check.” This is a different employee than the first employee with whom I had an agreement. He said, “What is the matter? Your balance has decreased.” I told him, “No.” I gave the employee a bundle of checks, unsigned, unstamped, and not deposited in the account, and I said, “Go and show him that my balance is still going well, but I am not going to rush to send the money to the bank.” Every merchant who comes to me, I give him, because sometimes there is a delay in the check, so instead of one check arriving, ten arrive, because it is not known that this other merchant will go to his balance in the bank account where it exists. So I will be forced to give him his money on the same date.Abu Layla : So, assuming the point Abu Hashim is making, even this second merchant who deposited the check in his name instructed the bank that when a check comes to him, to put it in his account. So this person’s matter is finished when he put the money in, as if one person gave another one hundred dinars, and the one who is going to deal with the bank is the other.
The questioner : Allow me, excuse me, the method of depositing the check.
Abu Layla : There is no method for depositing checks in the bank. If you deposit a check anywhere in the Kingdom, we return to saying, for example, I sold to customers by checks that are in Karak. I put them in my account from bank to bank, so they give them a special courier for collecting checks. The bank in Karak exists, and he carries the checks with him and goes to Karak to deposit them in the bank located in Karak. This is the bank’s special courier. I put them in my account; as soon as I put them in my account, they are recorded for me immediately. But let us assume the other party does not have a balance; the check bounces back. The check bounces back, and it has to go down to my account where I deposited it.
The questioner : ...
Abu Layla : Is there a way to deposit checks in the bank? If I deposit a check from anywhere in the Kingdom, let’s say I sold to customers in Karak by check, and I deposit it in my account from one bank to another, they give me a special courier for collecting checks. The bank in Karak has one, and he carries the checks with him and goes to Karak to deposit them in the bank there. This is the bank’s special courier. I deposit it in my account, and as soon as I deposit it, it is immediately recorded for me. But suppose the other party does not have a balance, the check bounces back. The check returns, and it has to be deducted from my account where I deposited it.
The Shaykh : May Allah make you doubly successful, by the permission of Allah the Exalted.
Abu Layla : How do you want to get out of it when you do not have a single qirsh in the bank? How can you make the material customer work for the sake of Allah with you, and you benefit from him without compensation? You do not imagine this at all. Did I make myself clear or not?
The Shaykh : Of course, when the customer comes to you for the sake of Allah the Exalted and says to you, “Give me the money in cash,” this exists and is common among many people.
Abu Layla : The bank, the bank.
The Shaykh : Yes, the bank. No, of course; the bank cannot.
Abu Layla : My brother, it is impossible.
The Shaykh : Okay, the method of purchase, my Shaykh, regarding the five percent discount and the method of the halal. For example, we bought this shirt for three dinars. I paid its price in cash, so it became three dinars minus fifteen qirsh, because there is a five percent discount. And if I paid its price later, it becomes three dinars.
Abu Layla : Flip it, flip it. It is just the installment, but he flipped it, so let it be flipped.
The Shaykh : We want the correct way, on the basis that I am buying on credit, because I do not have cash to buy.
Abu Layla : You will not be able to buy on credit for a cash price, but you can buy and you can sell on credit for a cash price. Do you understand my words?
The Shaykh : You cannot buy a promise for a cash price, but you can buy and sell a promise for a cash price. Do you understand what I am saying?
Abu Layla : Yes.
The Shaykh : As a merchant, you cannot buy from merchants who are material and who do not prohibit or permit, or at least some of them prohibit and permit, but he does not know that this is haram. So you cannot buy from them on installments at the cash price. But you can sell on installments at the cash price. In this case, you must commit to selling at one price without playing and deception. If you do so, like the merchant who was reported to me that he is a merchant in Kuwait, when he was informed that the installment price is haram, he made the installment price the same as the cash price. He was oppressing half the customers, but now he is oppressing all the customers. That is, he was selling the car, for example, for twenty thousand Kuwaiti dinars in cash, and twenty thousand five hundred, or two hundred, or three hundred on installments. When he was informed that this increase for the installment is haram, he started selling in cash and on installments for twenty thousand three hundred.
The questioner : Is there an obstacle to this?
Al-Halabi : Is this picture not permissible?
The Shaykh : Subhan Allah, and you ask this question?
Al-Halabi : I am asking sincerely due to confusion.
The Shaykh : No, by Allah, you do not need to ask this question.
Al-Halabi : Okay, my Shaykh, the price became one, meaning cash and installment, the price is one.
The Shaykh : Is the matter, my professor, devotional?
Al-Halabi : No, of course.
The Shaykh : Or is it rational in meaning?
Al-Halabi : Of course, this is rational in meaning.
The Shaykh : Did you not realize what I said earlier that he was oppressing half the customers who bought from him on installments, so now he is oppressing the second group who pay in cash?
Al-Halabi : My professor, the process of sale, the profit in sale, if there is no monopoly or exploitation or such, as is known, it is permissible for him to raise the price.
The Shaykh : Are actions not by intentions?
Al-Halabi : Of course.
The Shaykh : Why did he raise the price?
Al-Halabi : So the aspect of prohibition in this is the deception.
The Shaykh : Why did he raise the price?
The questioner : The deception.
The Shaykh : But what are we talking about?
Al-Halabi : If this aspect is the deception, not the principle of equality in price.
The Shaykh : My brother, we are speaking in clear Arabic. He was oppressing half the customers, now he is oppressing everyone.
Al-Halabi : Yes, yes.
The Shaykh : Clear.
Al-Halabi : So the aspect in this is the deception, the process of the trick that...
The questioner : This is widespread in Kuwait.
The Shaykh : Beware of buying at two prices. Did you work or did you stop?
Abu Layla : No, I worked, of course.
The Shaykh : May Allah give you health...
The Shaykh : It is not finished, it is not finished...
Students: ...
The Shaykh : I say... So we advised, and you are known as Abu Layla.
Abu Layla : Of course, Abu Ahmad from the house...Abu Layla : Meaning the family.
The Shaykh : Abu Ahmad, yes, the kunya. We advise you to sell on installments at the cash sale price, but not in that Kuwaiti way. Meaning, you are a merchant, and I am a merchant. Yes, I am a merchant in spiritual matters, if Allah wills. You, for example, as a merchant, set a principle that such and such goods give us a ten percent profit, for example, and such and such goods do not suffice with ten percent, so it becomes fifteen percent. And the second, due to its high turnover, suffices with, for example, five percent. Or the goods you have are one, so you set a fixed percentage, ten percent, for example. So you commit to selling on this basis, whether in cash or on installments. You do not do what we said, that when you now want to commit to the advice...The Shaykh : And you sell at one price, so you set the base profit instead of the previous ten percent to fifteen percent, because you used to sell on credit at fifteen percent. Now that there is no credit sales, and you sell for cash at two prices? No, one price. So you must stick to the lower profit, which is how much?
Abu Layla: Ten percent.
The Shaykh: Ten percent. That is gone, and it is clear. The most complex problem for you is when you want to buy. When you want to buy, imagine someone like your case who wants to follow the Shari'ah and is careful about it. Most likely, you will not find him. And if he is religious and pious, he will tell you,The Shaykh : So-and-so said there is nothing wrong with it. Perhaps in the middle of your city, this fatwa is issued. In that case, how can you convince him? You must do your best. If you fail to convince the man to sell to you at the cash price, you must buy with the cash you have, whether much or little, and tighten your belt a bit and reduce your consumption so that your food is what is halal.
Abu Layla: As for selling, Shaykh, our sales are wholesale. We might make a profit of thirty or twenty, or we might make a profit of five.
The Shaykh: This whole search is of no use to you.
Abu Layla: There is no fixed price. It is not possible for a friend of yours to buy from you without bargaining, even if he is your friend.
The Shaykh: My dear, do you sell wholesale or retail?
Abu Layla: Retail.
The Shaykh: Retail. Okay, what exactly are you selling in this merchandise?
Abu Layla: Clothes, pants, shirts...
The questioner: There is a second dilemma, my Shaykh.
The Shaykh: What is it?
The questioner: A dilemma with second-hand pants, and I don't know what else, and shirts.
The Shaykh: Keep it in mind. A customer comes and you know he has no liquidity, and a customer comes and you know he has liquidity. Do you bargain... Take your time, take your time. Why are you taking an exam to know what is in my mind? I don't even know what is in my mind. Allah addressed Isa (Jesus) and said to him:[Al-Ma'idah 5:116] So do not rush. Two customers come, one you know has liquidity and the other you know does not have liquidity. Selling and buying is skill, as you said, it is bargaining. Do you bargain with the one who has liquidity like the one who does not have liquidity? Or do you then be lenient with the one who has liquidity like the one who does not have liquidity? I think you are with me. If you do not recall the question, you will not know the answer. What is the question?
Abu Layla: If two customers come in, one has money and the other does not have money. This one says, "Do you want to give me credit?" and this one says, "I have the money available." Do you sell both the same thing, or do you sell one less than the other?
The Shaykh: No, that is not my question. Wait a moment, listen to it in the recording.
Abu Layla: When the one who wants to buy on credit comes in first, he is a customer of the shop, and most of the shop's customers do not bargain.
The Shaykh: They called it a dead end.
Abu Layla: The reality that is happening with me.
The Shaykh: My dear, it is permissible for someone to come to you whom you do not know.
Abu Layla: It will not happen. I do not give him credit. It is impossible. I will not give him credit. It is not possible for me to give him credit.
The Shaykh: How is it not possible to give him credit? Be patient with me a little. You write down his name.
Abu Layla: It is not possible.
The questioner: Write it down or take a pledge, because he does not know him.
The Shaykh: Take your time. It means you do not deal in credit except with someone you know, in any case.
Abu Layla: Yes, in any case.
The Shaykh: Keep going with your words, okay.
Abu Layla: As for cash, of course, some of our customers say, "Go ahead, take it," and sometimes they register it. When I sell to them, I do not know if they want cash or credit. I do not know. In the end, when they gather the items, they say, "Register them." This is one situation.
The Shaykh: You changed the subject. You changed the subject.
Abu Layla: We are going to return to the side that buys on credit.
The questioner: He says, "You know, you know this one has money and that one does not have money. Answer the question."The Shaykh
Abu Layla: I do not differentiate between any of them. I do not look at it as this one came to buy on credit and this one came to buy for cash.
The Shaykh: Okay, may Allah reward you for your patience. I repeated the question to you twice. I told you my question has two parts. You did not answer the first part or the second part. The first question: Do you maximize with them, do you bargain with them like each other, or do you always notice that this one has liquidity and this one does not have liquidity?
Abu Layla: No, I do not notice.
The Shaykh: You do not notice?
The questioner : No
The Shaykh: The second question: In the end, in the final analysis, the cycle and the bargaining, and so on. As I said during the conversation, the merchant, without offense, is usually a gymnast. They say in our region in Syria, you say this word.
The questioner: No, we do not say it.
The Shaykh: You do not say it? It means talkative, meaning he talks a lot. It means he wants to make the buyer dizzy with his talk and surrender to his request. Is this correct or not?
Abu Layla : Yes, correct.
The Shaykh: It is like that. What is this called in our language? It is called "gymnast." A lot of gymnastics, hehehe. So with his gymnastics, he concludes the matter with the one who wants to buy, whether he wants to buy for cash or on credit. Look, he concludes it at one rate between the two. Or does he notice that this one has liquidity, of course he knows this in advance, and this one does not have liquidity? So with his gymnastics, he holds on to it more with the one who wants to buy on credit than with the one who has liquidity. Is this correct or not?
The questioner : Without a doubt.
Abu Layla: I do not feel this thing.
The Shaykh: You, my friend, my companion, do you feel this thing or not?
The questioner: I am a man. I attended such a sale incident between him and a customer. It is possible he knows him, and it is possible I do not know him. But I ask him, "How much is the t-shirt and the blouse?" I specify it for him. There is give and take. In the end, we reach a result. Then he says, "Register it for me."
The Shaykh: May Allah reward you for your patience.
The questioner: My Shaykh, do not be realistic. He is telling us in the end, "Register it for us."
The Shaykh: Am I the realistic one or you?
The brothers laugh.
The questioner: In the end, after that one finishes his talk, he says to him, "Register it for me." I say, "Register it for me."
The Shaykh: Okay, what is your business with the details? May Allah guide you. Leave it alone. I am asking you. You do not know that he notices the difference between the cash price and the credit price. Do you know or do you not know? A word and cover it. Say, "I do not know," and leave it. Say, "He does not know."
The student: I do not know.
The students laugh
The Shaykh: He is going to give a lecture and he does not know the answer.
The questioner: He is in a psychological state. He does not know. He knows it better.
The Shaykh: Correct. But the transaction shows it. The transaction, because he is sitting with him.
The questioner: In the same topic as the brother.Abu Layla : , I say, without doubt, the one with more money tries to take a higher price from him. The one with less money, he feels with him and takes a lower price. As proof, I bought a set of vessels from him, and he gave me a lower price, and I have not yet paid him. My neighbor gave him a higher price and paid immediately.
The Shaykh: Did you like the answer? It is not like that.
The student brothers laugh.
The Shaykh: This answer, in the logic of knowledge, is not worth a penny. Why? Because you did not take less from him than the one who paid you in cash, because he took credit. Rather, it is because he is your owner, your friend, or a son of your town, or any of these connections that have special care. Our research is not like that.
Abu Layla: No, of course, our research is general.
The Shaykh: Ah, this man who bought from you on credit. So now you want to benefit your friend with something that does not harm you, so you harm yourself and harm him, because he opened a new question for me. Is it possible to sell the man who is not like this poor person in front of you, and he tried to get you out of a problem? Is it possible to sell him on credit for less than cash?
Abu Layla: No, of course not.
The Shaykh: What do you think? You have come out of this now. Okay.
The questioner : He is doing well.
The Shaykh: But you did not benefit your friend.
The questioner: I tried to clarify the...
The Shaykh: Why did you not sell to him for less? And this poor person says he sold to him for less.
The questioner: But there is a favor for him.
The Shaykh: Is it not because he is your owner and your friend?
Abu Layla : Yes.
The Shaykh: He tried to make it so that you differentiate...
Abu Layla: It is possible I do not want to profit from him at all.
The Shaykh: It is possible to give it to him without profit, without a price. This is possible, but this is not our research.
Abu Layla: Of course, our research is clear.
The Shaykh: In the end, and this is a debate that has actually lasted a long time. The important thing, as came in some of their questions, is that this friend of yours, specifically, when you consult your heart, and if the one who gives you the fatwa is not you, you were...The questioner ؟
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh: Consult your heart, and if the one who gives you the fatwa is not you. My advice to you is to make the cash price and the credit price one and the same. Do not consider it. And make the credit price one, with the previous condition: do not raise the profit rate when you are profiting from cash. If you are profiting ten percent, for example, in your merchandise, the clothes you mentioned, except for the pants.
The students laugh
The Shaykh : If you are making a ten percent profit, keep it at ten percent. That is the first piece of advice. The second piece of advice is: do not haggle. Let people know and advertise in your shop that Abu Ahmad’s price is one thing first, and the price for cash and installment payments is the same second; and thirdly, and finally, his price is the lowest of all prices. And see how your Lord blesses you in your trade.
The questioner : Put up a sign: Please do not embarrass us. The price is fixed.
The Shaykh : Number
Abu Layla : My account number currently, I do not keep it. There might be half a dinar or a dinar in it. Sometimes, some merchants are trading with their checks to unknown people, so I am forced to go with today's date or keep it with the bank, because sometimes it is delayed. For example, if the check date is 15/5, when the check reaches the bank, it takes four or five days to clear, so I am also reluctant to go deposit it
The questioner: On the date 15/5, I agreed with the bank employee that when the check reaches him, he would call me, and I would give him the price immediately, on the basis that I do not have a balance with them to incur sin in it.
The Shaykh : It seems there is a gap in your speech, which can be removed by answering the question
The Shaykh: The following: When did you start with this idea and this solution? Approximately two Fridays ago.
Abu Layla : No, I when I asked you
The Shaykh : The best answer is what is brief and clear. Two Fridays ago.
Abu Layla : A long time, more than four months.
The Shaykh : Okay, four months. In these four months, did you not have a single qirsh in the bank?
Abu Layla : I do not keep any money in the bank at all. I try my best not to keep anything, and surely I do not keep any.
The Shaykh : You try, but during these four months, did not a single qirsh enter the bank?
Abu Layla : I told you when it enters, but of course, it is present.
The Shaykh : What has passed, I told you. Now I am telling you frankly that there is a gap in your speech, and I either want to show it to you or close it, so that the solution to your operation appears, or it remains as we say, "stay in your place." Now answer me clearly: in these four months, did not a single qirsh of your money enter the bank?
Abu Layla : Of course, it entered, and I put money in to cover...
The Shaykh : So? The matter is not resolved. In other words, if a year passes and not a single qirsh enters the bank, will your operation with the banks continue? I do not think so.
Abu Layla : The account will be frozen.
The Shaykh : The operation will continue.
Abu Layla : It will continue in my way, and I will reach the correct thing.
The Shaykh : My brother, leave me the "correct thing." How does your operation continue when you do not have a single qirsh in the bank for a whole year, and the bank is a material bank, not a Sharia-compliant one? So when it sees a person who does not transfer his money to the bank or feed it, I imagine they would fire him in three...
Abu Layla : I told him this story yesterday.
The Shaykh : What do you think of this speech?
Abu Layla : Yesterday, he called the brother...
The Shaykh : My brother, give the answer. May Allah guide you. What do I want, yesterday's events or evening events, or whatever? Tell me, do you imagine with me that it would continue with them for years without a single qirsh of your money entering the bank?
Abu Layla : No, of course.
The Shaykh : Yes, that's it.
The questioner : If he did not put his money in the bank...
The Shaykh : This came at the end. We need to address the issue now, which is the idea that he is successful in, not that old one.
The questioner : No, the new one too.
The Shaykh : How is it new?
The questioner : What I am saying is, I just put in the check that arrives at that moment, this same check...
The Shaykh : But I am saying that this check did not enter the bank's box. You agreed with its owner that he would keep it and not put it in the box, is that not so?
Abu Layla : No; all of them enter these accounts.
The Shaykh : Then what is this friend of yours?
Abu Layla : No...
The Shaykh : Be patient for a moment.
Abu Layla : No, excuse me.
The Shaykh : Do not rush, and you need to speak. What did you think in your own mind? Understand what is in my mind and answer me. What did you benefit from this friend of yours? I understood that you benefited from him in that he kept the money and did not put it in the bank.
Abu Layla : Yes, usually the check reaches the bank and there is no balance, so it is immediately returned to the merchant. Of course, it is written on it "for lack of balance." This person calls me on the phone and tells me to send him money so that I can settle the check.
The Shaykh : If in this case, nothing entered the bank.Abu Layla : No, of course.
The Shaykh : Wait a moment, my brother! Your fever, let's finish with it. In this picture, nothing entered the bank.Abu Layla : Of course, it failed.
The Shaykh : My dear, tell me, did it enter or not? What entered or not?
Abu Layla : This is a coincidence... I am talking about the bank employee.
The Shaykh : What is my question? Be patient. What is my question?
Abu Layla : I am talking about the bank employee.
The Shaykh : Look, what is he saying?
The questioner : What is your question?
Abu Layla : If it entered the bank or not.
The Shaykh : My question is: did the money enter the bank or not? Answer this question.
Abu Layla : We gave the money to the bank employee, so it entered.
The Shaykh : Where did it enter? Did it enter or not?
Abu Layla : It entered with the employee.
Abu Layla : The bank employee put it in my balance and my account, then they took it out of my account number.
The questioner : I will explain it to you.
The Shaykh : No, no, I do not want you to explain it. I want to understand what entered the bank?
Abu Layla : The one hundred dinars I gave them to the bank employee, on the basis that the check reached the bank, so my card was delayed, and he found the balance to be zero or half a dinar. He said, "Send one hundred dinars so that I can settle the value of the check that came down." Of course, the amount entered the balance in my card and was taken out of my card.
The questioner : So it did not enter the treasury.
Abu Layla : Yes, it did not enter the treasury.
The Shaykh : This is what I wanted.
The questioner : No, that is wrong.
The Shaykh : Now I am teaching you... between his mistake...
The questioner : This money that the employee took, either he cashes it for the check owner, or he wants to put it in the check owner's account. If he puts it in the check owner's account, it will be helping this check owner in the sin.
The Shaykh : No
The questioner : How does he not want to use his money...
The Shaykh : Be patient. How did he help him?
The questioner : This man, whose friend gave him the check, has a balance in the bank, right? So this bank employee wants to record the one hundred dinars that this man paid in that man's balance.
Abu Layla : This is his right.
The questioner : Even if it is his right, but he used it in the bank. This man recorded it in the bank because this helped him in giving the check.
The Shaykh : If in this way, do you see that the transfer (hawala) is forbidden?
The questioner : The transfer.
The Shaykh : Yes, a transfer.
The questioner : And you say the transfer is not forbidden.
The Shaykh : What is the difference between this and that, and are you willing to show me the difference?
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Please go ahead.
The questioner : The difference with the transfer is that the transfer you receive it immediately. You do not record the transfer in the man's balance.
The Shaykh : Where immediately?
The questioner : No, here it is recorded in the balance.
The Shaykh : Where immediately, my dear son? In the Hijaz, I send one hundred dinars, and where did they come to me?
The questioner : ...
The Shaykh : Be patient. Where did this one hundred dinars enter?
The questioner : In the bank.
The Shaykh : Okay, be patient. How long did the one hundred dinars stay in the bank until it reached me?
The questioner : A week ago.
The Shaykh : And here, how long did it stay until it reached its owner?
The questioner : A moment.
The Shaykh : No. No. According to his statement, we now need to stick to his words. According to his statement, how long did it stay in the bank?
The questioner: One day.
The questioner : One day? Months?
The students: Five minutes, a quarter of an hour, until the transaction is finished.
The Shaykh : According to his explanation, you cannot live by your previous thinking regarding banks; that is a known issue. But now he is presenting a picture that is closest to a solution. However, as we said, at that moment I felt there was a flaw in his dealings. Do you see it? The flaw is that he must deposit something in the bank for his dealings with the bank to be acceptable. But in the point where you objected, no flaw appeared to me.
The questioner : He deposits.
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : He deposits.
The Shaykh : To clarify with another question: Do you see, within the limits of the picture he presented, and for which he is responsible, whether it is realistic or hypothetical, that the bank benefited from the one hundred dinars?
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : How? Be patient for a moment. I rushed. Do you think the bank benefited from the one hundred dinars?
Abu Layla : No, not at all. Because the bank’s requirement is to cash this check, and it wants its value from the merchant immediately. It comes in from here and goes out from here.
The Shaykh : Now, I am tricking him, considering that I am not a merchant and am incapable and ignorant of the matter, so you investigate with him.
The questioner : My Shaykh, I say the bank did not benefit from the money.
The Shaykh : Yes, exactly.
The questioner : How did it not benefit? Now, when the one hundred dinars reached the bank from you, did it not record it in that man’s account? Answer me, answer me: did it record it or not?
The Shaykh : I will answer you. I will put your mind at rest; no one will put your mind at rest like your Shaykh. I will put your mind at rest. I say: if the owner of the right to the one hundred dinars, belonging to our man, did not come immediately to take it, then the bank benefited. And conversely, if he did not come, it did not benefit. Do you agree with me?
The questioner : Yes, exactly.
The Shaykh : Okay, the picture he presented to me earlier was that that merchant would come to take this money on the same day.
The questioner : He did not say that, my Shaykh.
Abu Layla : Excuse me, allow me.
The Shaykh : O Abu Hashim, did he say it or not? I understood it this way. If that is the case, what is your opinion?
Abu Hashim: Correct.
The Shaykh : Now let us see if he said it or not.
Abu Layla : Allow me, my Shaykh. I used to spend about four thousand dinars a month. Currently, at the present time, I do not spend from the bank except three hundred dinars out of four thousand dinars. Of course, the three thousand seven hundred dinars come to me, and the merchants take their checks in cash. They come and give me the check, and I give them its value. Yesterday, the bank’s representative arrived and told me, “You do not have enough for every check.” This is a different employee than the first employee with whom I had an agreement. He said, “What is the matter? Your balance has decreased.” I told him, “No.” I gave the employee a bundle of checks, unsigned, unstamped, and not deposited in the account, and I said, “Go and show him that my balance is still going well, but I am not going to rush to send the money to the bank.” Every merchant who comes to me, I give him, because sometimes there is a delay in the check, so instead of one check arriving, ten arrive, because it is not known that this other merchant will go to his balance in the bank account where it exists. So I will be forced to give him his money on the same date.Abu Layla : So, assuming the point Abu Hashim is making, even this second merchant who deposited the check in his name instructed the bank that when a check comes to him, to put it in his account. So this person’s matter is finished when he put the money in, as if one person gave another one hundred dinars, and the one who is going to deal with the bank is the other.
The questioner : Allow me, excuse me, the method of depositing the check.
Abu Layla : There is no method for depositing checks in the bank. If you deposit a check anywhere in the Kingdom, we return to saying, for example, I sold to customers by checks that are in Karak. I put them in my account from bank to bank, so they give them a special courier for collecting checks. The bank in Karak exists, and he carries the checks with him and goes to Karak to deposit them in the bank located in Karak. This is the bank’s special courier. I put them in my account; as soon as I put them in my account, they are recorded for me immediately. But let us assume the other party does not have a balance; the check bounces back. The check bounces back, and it has to go down to my account where I deposited it.
The questioner : ...
Abu Layla : Is there a way to deposit checks in the bank? If I deposit a check from anywhere in the Kingdom, let’s say I sold to customers in Karak by check, and I deposit it in my account from one bank to another, they give me a special courier for collecting checks. The bank in Karak has one, and he carries the checks with him and goes to Karak to deposit them in the bank there. This is the bank’s special courier. I deposit it in my account, and as soon as I deposit it, it is immediately recorded for me. But suppose the other party does not have a balance, the check bounces back. The check returns, and it has to be deducted from my account where I deposited it.
The Shaykh : May Allah make you doubly successful, by the permission of Allah the Exalted.
Abu Layla : How do you want to get out of it when you do not have a single qirsh in the bank? How can you make the material customer work for the sake of Allah with you, and you benefit from him without compensation? You do not imagine this at all. Did I make myself clear or not?
The Shaykh : Of course, when the customer comes to you for the sake of Allah the Exalted and says to you, “Give me the money in cash,” this exists and is common among many people.
Abu Layla : The bank, the bank.
The Shaykh : Yes, the bank. No, of course; the bank cannot.
Abu Layla : My brother, it is impossible.
The Shaykh : Okay, the method of purchase, my Shaykh, regarding the five percent discount and the method of the halal. For example, we bought this shirt for three dinars. I paid its price in cash, so it became three dinars minus fifteen qirsh, because there is a five percent discount. And if I paid its price later, it becomes three dinars.
Abu Layla : Flip it, flip it. It is just the installment, but he flipped it, so let it be flipped.
The Shaykh : We want the correct way, on the basis that I am buying on credit, because I do not have cash to buy.
Abu Layla : You will not be able to buy on credit for a cash price, but you can buy and you can sell on credit for a cash price. Do you understand my words?
The Shaykh : You cannot buy a promise for a cash price, but you can buy and sell a promise for a cash price. Do you understand what I am saying?
Abu Layla : Yes.
The Shaykh : As a merchant, you cannot buy from merchants who are material and who do not prohibit or permit, or at least some of them prohibit and permit, but he does not know that this is haram. So you cannot buy from them on installments at the cash price. But you can sell on installments at the cash price. In this case, you must commit to selling at one price without playing and deception. If you do so, like the merchant who was reported to me that he is a merchant in Kuwait, when he was informed that the installment price is haram, he made the installment price the same as the cash price. He was oppressing half the customers, but now he is oppressing all the customers. That is, he was selling the car, for example, for twenty thousand Kuwaiti dinars in cash, and twenty thousand five hundred, or two hundred, or three hundred on installments. When he was informed that this increase for the installment is haram, he started selling in cash and on installments for twenty thousand three hundred.
The questioner : Is there an obstacle to this?
Al-Halabi : Is this picture not permissible?
The Shaykh : Subhan Allah, and you ask this question?
Al-Halabi : I am asking sincerely due to confusion.
The Shaykh : No, by Allah, you do not need to ask this question.
Al-Halabi : Okay, my Shaykh, the price became one, meaning cash and installment, the price is one.
The Shaykh : Is the matter, my professor, devotional?
Al-Halabi : No, of course.
The Shaykh : Or is it rational in meaning?
Al-Halabi : Of course, this is rational in meaning.
The Shaykh : Did you not realize what I said earlier that he was oppressing half the customers who bought from him on installments, so now he is oppressing the second group who pay in cash?
Al-Halabi : My professor, the process of sale, the profit in sale, if there is no monopoly or exploitation or such, as is known, it is permissible for him to raise the price.
The Shaykh : Are actions not by intentions?
Al-Halabi : Of course.
The Shaykh : Why did he raise the price?
Al-Halabi : So the aspect of prohibition in this is the deception.
The Shaykh : Why did he raise the price?
The questioner : The deception.
The Shaykh : But what are we talking about?
Al-Halabi : If this aspect is the deception, not the principle of equality in price.
The Shaykh : My brother, we are speaking in clear Arabic. He was oppressing half the customers, now he is oppressing everyone.
Al-Halabi : Yes, yes.
The Shaykh : Clear.
Al-Halabi : So the aspect in this is the deception, the process of the trick that...
The questioner : This is widespread in Kuwait.
The Shaykh : Beware of buying at two prices. Did you work or did you stop?
Abu Layla : No, I worked, of course.
The Shaykh : May Allah give you health...
The Shaykh : It is not finished, it is not finished...
Students: ...
The Shaykh : I say... So we advised, and you are known as Abu Layla.
Abu Layla : Of course, Abu Ahmad from the house...Abu Layla : Meaning the family.
The Shaykh : Abu Ahmad, yes, the kunya. We advise you to sell on installments at the cash sale price, but not in that Kuwaiti way. Meaning, you are a merchant, and I am a merchant. Yes, I am a merchant in spiritual matters, if Allah wills. You, for example, as a merchant, set a principle that such and such goods give us a ten percent profit, for example, and such and such goods do not suffice with ten percent, so it becomes fifteen percent. And the second, due to its high turnover, suffices with, for example, five percent. Or the goods you have are one, so you set a fixed percentage, ten percent, for example. So you commit to selling on this basis, whether in cash or on installments. You do not do what we said, that when you now want to commit to the advice...The Shaykh : And you sell at one price, so you set the base profit instead of the previous ten percent to fifteen percent, because you used to sell on credit at fifteen percent. Now that there is no credit sales, and you sell for cash at two prices? No, one price. So you must stick to the lower profit, which is how much?
Abu Layla: Ten percent.
The Shaykh: Ten percent. That is gone, and it is clear. The most complex problem for you is when you want to buy. When you want to buy, imagine someone like your case who wants to follow the Shari'ah and is careful about it. Most likely, you will not find him. And if he is religious and pious, he will tell you,The Shaykh : So-and-so said there is nothing wrong with it. Perhaps in the middle of your city, this fatwa is issued. In that case, how can you convince him? You must do your best. If you fail to convince the man to sell to you at the cash price, you must buy with the cash you have, whether much or little, and tighten your belt a bit and reduce your consumption so that your food is what is halal.
Abu Layla: As for selling, Shaykh, our sales are wholesale. We might make a profit of thirty or twenty, or we might make a profit of five.
The Shaykh: This whole search is of no use to you.
Abu Layla: There is no fixed price. It is not possible for a friend of yours to buy from you without bargaining, even if he is your friend.
The Shaykh: My dear, do you sell wholesale or retail?
Abu Layla: Retail.
The Shaykh: Retail. Okay, what exactly are you selling in this merchandise?
Abu Layla: Clothes, pants, shirts...
The questioner: There is a second dilemma, my Shaykh.
The Shaykh: What is it?
The questioner: A dilemma with second-hand pants, and I don't know what else, and shirts.
The Shaykh: Keep it in mind. A customer comes and you know he has no liquidity, and a customer comes and you know he has liquidity. Do you bargain... Take your time, take your time. Why are you taking an exam to know what is in my mind? I don't even know what is in my mind. Allah addressed Isa (Jesus) and said to him:
You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself
تعلم ما في نفسي ولا أعلم ما في نفسكAbu Layla: If two customers come in, one has money and the other does not have money. This one says, "Do you want to give me credit?" and this one says, "I have the money available." Do you sell both the same thing, or do you sell one less than the other?
The Shaykh: No, that is not my question. Wait a moment, listen to it in the recording.
Abu Layla: When the one who wants to buy on credit comes in first, he is a customer of the shop, and most of the shop's customers do not bargain.
The Shaykh: They called it a dead end.
Abu Layla: The reality that is happening with me.
The Shaykh: My dear, it is permissible for someone to come to you whom you do not know.
Abu Layla: It will not happen. I do not give him credit. It is impossible. I will not give him credit. It is not possible for me to give him credit.
The Shaykh: How is it not possible to give him credit? Be patient with me a little. You write down his name.
Abu Layla: It is not possible.
The questioner: Write it down or take a pledge, because he does not know him.
The Shaykh: Take your time. It means you do not deal in credit except with someone you know, in any case.
Abu Layla: Yes, in any case.
The Shaykh: Keep going with your words, okay.
Abu Layla: As for cash, of course, some of our customers say, "Go ahead, take it," and sometimes they register it. When I sell to them, I do not know if they want cash or credit. I do not know. In the end, when they gather the items, they say, "Register them." This is one situation.
The Shaykh: You changed the subject. You changed the subject.
Abu Layla: We are going to return to the side that buys on credit.
The questioner: He says, "You know, you know this one has money and that one does not have money. Answer the question."The Shaykh
Abu Layla: I do not differentiate between any of them. I do not look at it as this one came to buy on credit and this one came to buy for cash.
The Shaykh: Okay, may Allah reward you for your patience. I repeated the question to you twice. I told you my question has two parts. You did not answer the first part or the second part. The first question: Do you maximize with them, do you bargain with them like each other, or do you always notice that this one has liquidity and this one does not have liquidity?
Abu Layla: No, I do not notice.
The Shaykh: You do not notice?
The questioner : No
The Shaykh: The second question: In the end, in the final analysis, the cycle and the bargaining, and so on. As I said during the conversation, the merchant, without offense, is usually a gymnast. They say in our region in Syria, you say this word.
The questioner: No, we do not say it.
The Shaykh: You do not say it? It means talkative, meaning he talks a lot. It means he wants to make the buyer dizzy with his talk and surrender to his request. Is this correct or not?
Abu Layla : Yes, correct.
The Shaykh: It is like that. What is this called in our language? It is called "gymnast." A lot of gymnastics, hehehe. So with his gymnastics, he concludes the matter with the one who wants to buy, whether he wants to buy for cash or on credit. Look, he concludes it at one rate between the two. Or does he notice that this one has liquidity, of course he knows this in advance, and this one does not have liquidity? So with his gymnastics, he holds on to it more with the one who wants to buy on credit than with the one who has liquidity. Is this correct or not?
The questioner : Without a doubt.
Abu Layla: I do not feel this thing.
The Shaykh: You, my friend, my companion, do you feel this thing or not?
The questioner: I am a man. I attended such a sale incident between him and a customer. It is possible he knows him, and it is possible I do not know him. But I ask him, "How much is the t-shirt and the blouse?" I specify it for him. There is give and take. In the end, we reach a result. Then he says, "Register it for me."
The Shaykh: May Allah reward you for your patience.
The questioner: My Shaykh, do not be realistic. He is telling us in the end, "Register it for us."
The Shaykh: Am I the realistic one or you?
The brothers laugh.
The questioner: In the end, after that one finishes his talk, he says to him, "Register it for me." I say, "Register it for me."
The Shaykh: Okay, what is your business with the details? May Allah guide you. Leave it alone. I am asking you. You do not know that he notices the difference between the cash price and the credit price. Do you know or do you not know? A word and cover it. Say, "I do not know," and leave it. Say, "He does not know."
The student: I do not know.
The students laugh
The Shaykh: He is going to give a lecture and he does not know the answer.
The questioner: He is in a psychological state. He does not know. He knows it better.
The Shaykh: Correct. But the transaction shows it. The transaction, because he is sitting with him.
The questioner: In the same topic as the brother.Abu Layla : , I say, without doubt, the one with more money tries to take a higher price from him. The one with less money, he feels with him and takes a lower price. As proof, I bought a set of vessels from him, and he gave me a lower price, and I have not yet paid him. My neighbor gave him a higher price and paid immediately.
The Shaykh: Did you like the answer? It is not like that.
The student brothers laugh.
The Shaykh: This answer, in the logic of knowledge, is not worth a penny. Why? Because you did not take less from him than the one who paid you in cash, because he took credit. Rather, it is because he is your owner, your friend, or a son of your town, or any of these connections that have special care. Our research is not like that.
Abu Layla: No, of course, our research is general.
The Shaykh: Ah, this man who bought from you on credit. So now you want to benefit your friend with something that does not harm you, so you harm yourself and harm him, because he opened a new question for me. Is it possible to sell the man who is not like this poor person in front of you, and he tried to get you out of a problem? Is it possible to sell him on credit for less than cash?
Abu Layla: No, of course not.
The Shaykh: What do you think? You have come out of this now. Okay.
The questioner : He is doing well.
The Shaykh: But you did not benefit your friend.
The questioner: I tried to clarify the...
The Shaykh: Why did you not sell to him for less? And this poor person says he sold to him for less.
The questioner: But there is a favor for him.
The Shaykh: Is it not because he is your owner and your friend?
Abu Layla : Yes.
The Shaykh: He tried to make it so that you differentiate...
Abu Layla: It is possible I do not want to profit from him at all.
The Shaykh: It is possible to give it to him without profit, without a price. This is possible, but this is not our research.
Abu Layla: Of course, our research is clear.
The Shaykh: In the end, and this is a debate that has actually lasted a long time. The important thing, as came in some of their questions, is that this friend of yours, specifically, when you consult your heart, and if the one who gives you the fatwa is not you, you were...The questioner ؟
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh: Consult your heart, and if the one who gives you the fatwa is not you. My advice to you is to make the cash price and the credit price one and the same. Do not consider it. And make the credit price one, with the previous condition: do not raise the profit rate when you are profiting from cash. If you are profiting ten percent, for example, in your merchandise, the clothes you mentioned, except for the pants.
The students laugh
The Shaykh : If you are making a ten percent profit, keep it at ten percent. That is the first piece of advice. The second piece of advice is: do not haggle. Let people know and advertise in your shop that Abu Ahmad’s price is one thing first, and the price for cash and installment payments is the same second; and thirdly, and finally, his price is the lowest of all prices. And see how your Lord blesses you in your trade.
The questioner : Put up a sign: Please do not embarrass us. The price is fixed.
Source
www.al-albany.com
The Arabic text is copied verbatim from the original source, without any edits.
