Did you study under Ahmad Shakir? How many times did you meet him? And what is your story with Hamid al-Faqi?

Abu Ishaq: All right, please, my Shaykh, I was in the process of writing a biography of Shaykh Ahmad Shakir (may Allah have mercy on him) from among the contemporary brothers or the like, so I was left with your opinion and how many times you met himThe Shaykh : and whether you studied under himThe Shaykh : in reality, or is it just a few minutes.

The Shaykh: No, I did not have the opportunity to study under him; rather, I met him the first time I met him in Makkah during the first Hajj I performed. That was when I was probably around thirty-five years old. This Hajj was not by my own effort, because I was a young man in knowledge and in the profession of repairing watches; so I was not able to perform Hajj at that time. But Allah the Exalted provided a means for me: some of them chose me as a guide for the Saudi-Palestinian group that departed after the fighting between the Arabs and the Jews, with the known result, and the Arab armies returned to their capitals. Among them was the Saudi-Palestinian army, which was a mix of people from many Arab countries, some of whom were originally Saudi. When the Saudi King decided at that time that these people should return, they had a commander named Fahd al-Mariq. It appears that the name "Mariq" displeased him later, so he changed it to "Maraq" with a kaf. In any case, I understood from him at that time that he was a student of knowledge at Dar al-Tawhid in Ta'if. He was the commander of this group, so he had, as they say, a background of religion and knowledge. He asked for a person to accompany him as a guide for this Saudi group returning to Riyadh. They were told, "You have no one but so-and-so and so-and-so." The first one wasThe Shaykh : Bahjat al-Baytar (may Allah have mercy on him), and the other was me. SoThe Shaykh : Bahjat. At that time, he was an old man, so he excused himself. When it came to me and the offer was made to go with the Saudi group, this would be a result of the matter that would enable me to perform Hajj and visit the Prophet's Mosque. I am a person who is accustomed to saying to our brothers when someone invites me, "I am not joking; if you are inviting me seriously, I will accept immediately." This is a Syrian expression, "I am not joking," because it is the custom there for a person to be doing any work, and a passerby friend would say to him, "Please come in." Of course, it is said when they meet near the man's house, he says, "Please come in." So he would say, "I am not joking, I am afraid you are saying it seriously." So I was eager to perform Hajj but unable to. When this was offered to me, I said, "I have no objection; but I will consult my father." My father was a religious man and a scholar of Hanafi jurisprudence and what is called the auxiliary sciences of language, but I rebelled and deviated from him when I followed the methodology of the people of Hadith. So I took his opinion in any case. At that time, I was working in my own shop. He said, "There is no objection; you know what is in your best interest." In any case, I traveled. One of the motivations for this trip was that the trip itself was not desirable, why? Because it involved riding in the large military trucks used for heavy loads. But the longing, first, for Hajj to the Sacred House of Allah, and second, for meeting the scholars there. Because I was reading in the magazine *Al-Arab* and I had knowledge ofThe Shaykh : Ahmad and I had knowledge of Hamid al-Faqi and some Salafi figures. So I said, "I am not going to be able to meet them except in the Sacred Mosque." So the first person I asked about was Hamid al-Faqi (may Allah have mercy on him). The first person I asked about was Hamid al-Faqi (may Allah have mercy on him). He appeared to be sharp-tongued. He was staying in a hotel; I forgot, by Allah, what its name was? It is an old, famous name in many countries. In any case, I and the commander of this group went up to him. He was sitting on a bed, and it was summer, and he had taken his ease; his shirt had short sleeves and he was wearing white clothes. I liked this state, what...

The Shaykh: So there were two beds facing each other, and I sat in front of him. He said to him, "So-and-so, Muhammad al-Nasir al-Albani." "Ah," he said, "Welcome," and he stood up and embraced me, and perhaps kissed me. I did not know at that time the ruling on kissing, whether it was permissible or not.
— laughsThe Shaykh : and the students —

The Shaykh: And welcome, how are you, how, how? And it came to the point that I mentioned the Muslim Brotherhood. He said to me, "The Ikhwan, the Ikhwan." I was shocked by this statement. I said, "What is this, my Shaykh?" He said, "These people are such and such." And he started talking about the Muslim Brotherhood, whom he knew there. I said, "My Shaykh, but the Muslim Brotherhood cannot be compared to each other in all countries. You can speak, and you know more than I do. The Muslim Brotherhood there in Egypt, I do not know them, and I cannot deny what you say about them. But in Syria, I do not think it is permissible for you, as a Muslim, to speak about them when you do not know them." In any case, we sat with him and got to know him. And the second meeting, which is the one you asked about, was with Ahmad Shakir (may Allah have mercy on him). I asked about him, and they said he was staying in a hotel. I do not know if there is a hotel in Makkah named Shubra; it exists in Egypt, that thing. In any case, I went to him, and he was sitting at the entrance of the hotel. I greeted him and introduced myself. I said to him, "I asked about you, and my intention is to benefit from your knowledge, because I read some of your letters and some of your books, especially your commentary on the Musnad." He immediately excused himself and said to me, and I do not forget this word, it is Egyptian language, "Madamati marida" (As long as you are ill). Yes; and therefore he was saying he was excusing himself. So I accepted his excuse and sat for a little while, then I left. Then it was decreed for me that I traveled from Makkah to Jeddah, and from Jeddah to Madinah by plane. There I learned thatThe Shaykh : Ahmad Shakir was also staying in a hotel, and I said, "This is, by Allah, an opportunity." So I went to him. I had in my mind to discuss with him his reliance on the authentication of Ibn Hibban. So I raised the topic, and lo and behold, to my regret, he was a flame of fire. He did not accept discussion or debate, and it was a very, very strange thing. So I was shocked. He said, "How do we want to waste the efforts of such an Imam?" I said, "My Shaykh, I did not say we would waste his efforts, but I wanted to remind al-Hafiz Ibn Hajar of what he is known for, of course, from what al-Hafiz said in the introduction to Lisan al-Mizan. He had no readiness at all for discussion, absolutely not. So I returned, to my regret, with empty hands. Then afterwards, he came to Damascus, and when I heard of it, I visited him in the house where he was staying. But I did not benefit from him at all, because he had no readiness
Abu Ishaq: to discuss.

The Shaykh: at all. This is all that I can mention about him (may Allah have mercy on him).
Abu Ishaq: I mean, he had sharpness.

The Shaykh: Yes, a very sharp, iron temperament, by Allah, in the name of Allah.
Abu Ishaq: But it is said among us in Egypt that when he was in his... Do you know, my Shaykh?The Shaykh : Abd al-Ma'iz Abd al-Satar.

The Shaykh: Abd?
Abu Ishaq: Abd al-Ma'iz.

The Shaykh: Ah, this is my brother, yes.
Abu Ishaq: He was in Qatar.

The Shaykh: He was in Qatar, yes.
Abu Ishaq: He is married to the daughter of Dr. Ahmad Ahmad al-Sharif, andThe Shaykh : Shakir... in the introduction to the Musnad, and he was a contemporary ofThe Shaykh : Shakir, and he used to say that his chest was very broad in discussions at the beginning of his life or the like.

The Shaykh: This reminds me of a story, and the purpose of which I present it in advance; because there is no similarity except in one aspect. He appears broad in that if a questioner asked him, he would answer; but if it wasThe questioner : If he has some knowledge, he takes and gives with it, so that is something else. As for Al-Ma'iz, I do not think he has any insight into the science of hadith, so if he transmits something like this, his transmission is not precise. In any case, I mentioned what happened to me, and this is not a standard. It is possible to say that this was at the end of his life, so this report is added to the other reports. As for what I saw, it is what I mentioned to you. I want to say that I used to visit the Muslim Brotherhood center in Damascus. When one of them, whose name was Hasan 'Abid, told me about it—he had a strong connection with us and adopted the Salafi call, but he was involved with the Muslim Brotherhood—he mentioned to me one day a Qadiani young man named 'Ala' al-Din. He praised him, saying he was very broad-minded. Here is the point: what is your opinion if you meet him? He knew that I had debated the Qadianis and that we held successive sessions there. Naturally, I am a man who does not find jokes, so I answered his invitation. He called the man, and he agreed, so we met in a private room at the Muslim Brotherhood center. And there, our friend Hasan saw in him the opposite of what he had told me. The discussion lengthened, it became heated, and voices were raised, and so on. When we came out, he said to me, "By Allah, it is strange. I do not know him like this. I know 'Ala' to be long-tempered." I said, "My brother, you need to note something. First, this is a Qadiani preacher. These people are long-tempered with the general public because there is no one else to ask questions, so they get a lecture. Why would they get angry? But when you put him to the test, where you take and give, the heat rises." He said, "By Allah, that is true. The only similarity is that you give him room to speak, and he speaks. But as for taking and giving, especially in what you disagree with in his opinion, he does exactly that. Otherwise, the rare ones among men are truly rare."
Abu Ishaq: Well, the rank ofThe Shaykh : Ahmad Shakir among the scholars of hadith... No problem, my Shaykh, this is the opportunity of a lifetime.

The Shaykh : May Allah reward you.
Abu Ishaq: So we will not forgive you... the rank ofThe Shaykh : Ahmad Shakir (may Allah have mercy on him) among the contemporary scholars.

The Shaykh: I have not met anyone like him.
Abu Ishaq:The Shaykh : Ahmad Shakir.

The Shaykh: Yes, I have not met anyone like him. And I mean that I am not saying this because the absence of finding does not indicate the absence of existence. It is possible that, as they say, there are hidden things in the corners. But I have not discovered these corners to know what hidden things are in them. But within the limits of what I know and what I have looked into, I have not seen anyone likeThe Shaykh : Ahmad Shakir. Of course, this is from his effects, from his effects. As for the meeting, frankly, nothing happened between me and him except a short discussion.