If one’s habit is practical disbelief, is he ruled to be a disbeliever in belief?

The questioner : May Allah reward you. I mean, there is a doubt in this matter. If this person commits practical disbelief and that is his habit, does that not include him, Shaykh? Can we not say that he is a disbeliever?

The Shaykh : Yes, it is the same.

The questioner : Because the heart is connected to the outward appearance?

The Shaykh : Yes, we cannot say so unless he expresses it with his tongue, as I said earlier. Now the issue is clear. A man who judges by the Shari'ah, not by the law, not by imported systems. A judge who rules by what Allah said and what the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) said, but in a government he does not follow his desires; he gives the right to those who are not its rightful owners. Is this judging by what Allah has revealed?

The questioner : He is not judging by it.

The Shaykh : So what do we say about him? Did he apostatize from his religion? Did he not apostatize from his religion?

The questioner : He did not apostatize.

The Shaykh : No, I am not saying it that way, pay attention.

The questioner : If it is, and if it is.

The Shaykh : Yes, may Allah reward you. Is that clear? Now, let us assume, in order to reach the answer to your question, that this is someone who repeatedly commits sin and violates the Shari'ah. So, Zayd, one of the people who usually judge by the Book and the Sunnah in a government, judged by other than the Shari'ah. We say: If he considered that permissible in his heart, he has committed disbelief and apostatized from his religion. Otherwise, his disbelief is a disbelief less than disbelief. Now, if he is of the second type, and his first ruling was of the second type, meaning he did not apostatize from his religion because his disbelief was practical, then after a long or short time, it does not matter, he does it again in another case, following his desires and judging by other than what Allah has revealed. Do we say he has apostatized? Do we say he has not apostatized? Pay attention.

The questioner : We apply the rule: disbelief less than disbelief.

The Shaykh : That is it. Now, imagine, no matter how often this action is repeated from him, the answer never changes. So, there is no difference between not being pleased with it and it being repeated. There is no difference between it being repeated a little or a lot. The criterion is whether he considers it permissible in his heart or not. So, no matter how many times he judges, if deep in his heart he says, “O my Lord, forgive me,” then he is not a disbeliever. He is an open sinner. He is one who disobeys Allah.
The Shaykh : Mighty and Majestic. In one ruling, he said, “My brother, times have changed and Islam is no longer suitable for ruling,” and so on. One ruling: disbelief and apostasy from his religion. Why? Because he considered violating the Shari'ah permissible in his heart. Therefore, I do not mean he said it out loud; it is not necessary for people to hear it. Yes, and this is known in the Arabic language.

The questioner : How do people rule on him if he did not say it?

The Shaykh : We are not currently concerned with—may Allah reward you—people ruling on him. We are concerned with who is a disbeliever in the sight of Allah, Mighty and Majestic. He may be a disbeliever in the sight of Allah, but you cannot rule that he is a disbeliever. This is the case in Islam. In the beginning, there were hypocrites.

The questioner : Perhaps the picture would become clearer, our Shaykh, if we said that a man is a disbeliever, he is a judge among the judges, and he judges between people. And this man liked to judge by the rulings of Islam, by the system of Islam, but he is a disbeliever, for example, a Christian.

The Shaykh : It does not benefit him.

The questioner : So he liked to judge by the system of Islam. Does that benefit him, for example?

The Shaykh : No.