Discussion of the call of Shaykh Muhammad ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab and a digression on the issue of seeking nearness to Allah through the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) and through the status of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him)
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The Shaykh : The truth is that Muhammad ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab (may Allah have mercy on him) did a great service to the Muslim community, but there was some exaggeration and strictness in him. This strictness appeared in... what were these first groups called?
Al-Halabi : The Ikhwan from the Covenant of Allah.
The questioner : The brothers.
The Shaykh : The Mutawwifin, I don't know what they were?
The questioner : The Ikhwan who fought King 'Abd al-'Aziz.
Al-Halabi : The king who called them the Ikhwan from the Covenant of Allah.
The Shaykh : There was strictness among them, and it appears that this is the decree of Allah in His creation, except for those whom Allah protects. And their hearts were not as He (peace be upon him) said:Sahih Ibn Khuzaymah 5:197. So the group had some strictness, which they naturally took from some of the texts of Muhammad ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab (may Allah have mercy on him). The followers continued to this era, connected to this strictness. And we used to hear in the past that these Najdis declared most Muslims to be disbelievers.
The questioner : Khawarij.
The Shaykh : Or they called them Khawarij, and so on. When I started traveling to those lands, I saw in their followers some of this strictness. It is sufficient to say that merely because one person seeks nearness to Allah through the innovated tawassul, which we all agree is disbelief and shirk, we should not simply say it is disbelief or shirk. We must examine the matter in detail: what does this person who seeks nearness mean? What does he want? Otherwise, we would declare a leader among the leaders of the Muslims to be a disbeliever and a polytheist, namely Muhammad ibn 'Ali al-Shawkani, because he said that seeking nearness is permissible. Do you know this?
The questioner : I mean through the status, through the status of the Messenger?
The Shaykh : Through the Messenger after his death.
The questioner : Through the status of the Messenger or through his person?
The Shaykh : Through his person; I am not currently recalling...
The questioner : It appears to be through his status, and likewise Ahmad ibn Hanbal (may Allah have mercy on him) regarding the permissibility of seeking nearness through the status of the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him and his family)...
The Shaykh : But do you not feel with me that stopping at these words is rigid? If seeking nearness through the status differs from seeking nearness through the person, then the one who seeks nearness through the status is not censured, and the one who seeks nearness through the person is censured?
The questioner : No, both are censured.
The Shaykh : So what is the result of the distinction?
The questioner : The distinction is that one is declared a disbeliever and the other is not.
The Shaykh : Why is one declared a disbeliever and not the other?
The questioner : Because regarding the person, we are forbidden from seeking nearness through the person. As for the status, they have texts regarding it and they have a doubt.
The Shaykh : Do not prolong the answer on me, you are going to tire me now. What is the difference between this tawassul, which you say is shirk, and that they have evidence...
The questioner : No, Shaykh, because the text forbidding seeking nearness through the person is clearer than the text regarding seeking nearness through the status.
The Shaykh : Where is the prohibition? Where is this prohibition?
The questioner : The prohibition is that one does not call for aid through me, but calls for aid through Allah.
The Shaykh : We are discussing tawassul, not istighathah (calling for aid).
Al-Halabi : Assuming the hadith is correct, Shaykh, and it is not.
The Shaykh : That is correct.
The questioner : Through tawassul...
The Shaykh : There is no prohibition, Professor, no explicit prohibition; but the knowledgeable Muslim, when he follows the Sunnah and its texts regarding seeking nearness through the names of Allah or an attribute of Allah or through righteous deeds, finds that this tawassul is contrary to this prescribed tawassul. This is one point. The other is that this tawassul through a created being may lead to exalting it, if it does not lead to deifying it. Do you understand how?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : So if it does not lead to exalting it and deifying it, it is contrary to the Sunnah.
The questioner : The saying of Allah (Blessed and Exalted is He):[Az-Zumar 39:3] They used to say these are our intercessors to Allah, meaning we seek nearness to Allah through them and seek intercession with them before Allah (Glorified and Exalted is He). Is this not a text of prohibition?
The Shaykh : Glory be to Allah! And what is the connection of these verses to tawassul here? Tawassul is to say, "O Allah, I ask You and turn to You through Your Prophet, the Prophet of Mercy, to forgive me." What is the connection to[Az-Zumar 39:3]? This one is worshipped and this one worships Allah and calls upon Allah and does not call upon other than Allah; but the one who makes an intermediary between himself and Allah (Mighty and Majestic) to accept his supplication.
The questioner : And this innovated intermediary, Shaykh, Allah has censured them for it.
And what did I say?
The questioner : You agree with me, Shaykh, that it is an innovation, but I mean...
The Shaykh : But you asked me how it is with me regarding something you are asking me about.
The questioner : No, you want from me evidence for the impermissibility of tawassul...
The Shaykh: Allahu Akbar.
The questioner : I mean regarding the prohibition.
The Shaykh : Yes, regarding the prohibition that confirms it is contrary to the Sunnah, otherwise you are now complicating your situation, wanting to prove to me that it is shirk.
The questioner : What, Shaykh?
The Shaykh : The one who says in his supplication, "O Allah, I ask You through Your Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him and his family) to forgive me," do you say this is shirk? Like one who abandons prayer?
The questioner : The one who seeks nearness through the person of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him and his family)?
The Shaykh : Allah is the Greatest, and what am I saying? I am saying the one who says in his supplication, "I ask You through Your Prophet," today the Messenger is dead, is this shirk like one who abandons prayer?
Al-Halabi : Shaykh, regarding the origin of this, meaning the distinction between the person and the status, do you remember anyone who said this before?
The Shaykh : We need to reach a conclusion, but he is now jumping like a gazelle, Professor 'Ali. We moved from the topic of what is prescribed to what is not prescribed to it being disbelief. And this is the exaggeration of the group, which is what we are complaining about.[Az-Zumar 39:3] This is the saying of the polytheists, I think at the beginning of the verse. [Az-Zumar 39:3] Now we ask, to understand, how was the worship of the polytheists to their gods and their awliya (close friends of Allah) as in this verse? What did they do?
The questioner : From slaughtering and circumambulation.
The Shaykh : Good, did someone like al-Shawkani do any of that?
The questioner: No.
The Shaykh : Say no. If someone like al-Shawkani, I say "like" so you do not circle around al-Shawkani, if someone like al-Shawkani says, "O Allah, I ask You through Muhammad to forgive me," did he slaughter for him?
The questioner : No, he did not slaughter.
The Shaykh : And so on, is this a polytheist?
The questioner : No, he is not a polytheist.
The Shaykh : Is it permissible to use the previous verse as evidence against him?
The questioner: No.
The Shaykh : This is what you are doing, and here lies the error. You must, when you research these dangerous and precise issues, distinguish between one whose entire action is shirk, and it is said this tawassul is of this type, because a person is driven by the beliefs and ideas he is saturated with. If a person, say so-and-so, is saturated with the belief that he does not slaughter except for Allah, does not vow except to Allah, is not circumambulated except around the House of Allah, and does not call except to Allah in times of hardship. Say what you want of the negatives, no, no, no, and so on, there is nothing; but he says, "I believe it is permissible to say, 'O Allah, forgive me through the status of Muhammad, I ask You through Muhammad to forgive me.'" What is the evidence for this being shirk, because Allah says on the tongue of the polytheists[Az-Zumar 39:3] and he does not worship them.
The questioner : The second verse, okay?
The Shaykh : Go ahead.
The questioner : These are our intercessors with Allah.
The Shaykh : He does not say these are our intercessors with Allah; he asks and seeks nearness, so either Allah responds or He does not; so this is not like the saying of the polytheists who are certain that these gods, which have no reality, are their intercessors with Allah (Blessed and Exalted is He).
Al-Halabi : This is very subtle.
The questioner : And if he believes that this wali (close friend of Allah) or...
The Shaykh : If he believes, we return to creedal disbelief and practical disbelief, and this is what we want from you, that you distinguish between them. And I am going to give you an example of a person who does not have all this creed. Al-Shawkani, I believe, of course, now we need to talk about his person, I believe you do not disagree with us when we say that he has a great merit in spreading tawhid (the oneness of Allah) in Yemen, even though the merit returns to the one with the primary merit, Muhammad ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab, and all of that returns to Muhammad ibn 'Abd Allah. Ah; so we do not believe that al-Shawkani had any creedal disbelief in himself, but he exerted effort and thought that the hadith of the blind man was in effect after the death of the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him and his family), so he said the permissibility of tawassul in the manner that was said about Imam Ahmad. If Imam Ahmad had mentioned the word, what? The status. And now we need to see what is the difference between tawassul through the status or through the person, what is the difference? Tawassul through the person is tawassul through a created being, is it not?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Okay, and tawassul through the status of a created being, is it tawassul through the Creator or a created being?
The questioner : Tawassul through a created being.
The Shaykh : What is the difference?
The questioner : The difference is that this self is like tangible objects, such as stones; meaning, seeking nearness through the self is seeking nearness through something visible and tangible.
The Shaykh : I did not understand what you mean by seeking nearness?
The questioner : The one who seeks nearness through the self is seeking nearness through a tangible thing, while the one who seeks nearness through status is seeking nearness through a conceptual thing.
The Shaykh : No, that is not correct; it is not correct at all.
The questioner : Why? Is status a concept, Shaykh, or is it tangible?
The Shaykh : But the concept exists in the self. Is it in an inanimate object or not?
The questioner : A concept that exists in its own self.
The Shaykh : Is it separate from the self?
The questioner : No, it is not separate.
The Shaykh : So why are you separating it mentally, when in reality it is not so?
Al-Halabi : And it points to the self in the first place.
The Shaykh : That is it.
The attributes of Allah are not the self itself, nor are they other than it in a state of separation. Do you know this philosophy?
Al-Halabi : Our Shaykh, who said this?
The Shaykh : The author of the poem *Bid' al-Amali*.
Al-Halabi : Is this a Maliki, I think?
The Shaykh : No, I think he is a Hanafi.
The attributes of Allah are not the self itself, nor are they other than it in a state of separation...
The point is, is this status separate from the person?
The questioner: No.
The Shaykh : So, as they say in our region of Sham, "All roads lead to the mill." Whether you go this way or that way, they all end up meeting at the mill. If you say "self" or you say "status," it all points to a tawassul that is not prescribed. But here, the sectarianism of people becomes apparent. As long as Imam Ahmad said that tawassul through the self is permissible, and Imam Ahmad is the Imam of the Sunnah...
The questioner : Excuse me, Shaykh, through status.
The Shaykh : Excuse me, through status. Imam Ahmad, may Allah reward you with good, is the Imam of the Sunnah. So we must distinguish between the one who commits disbelief by tawassul through the self and the one who says tawassul through status. Because the Imam of the Sunnah said that tawassul through status is permissible, unlike tawassul through the self. My brother, there is no difference between this and that; say it clearly. Imam Ahmad said it based on his independent legal reasoning (ijtihad). If he was right, he has two rewards; if he was wrong, he has one reward.
The questioner : We believe he was wrong, and they believe he was wrong.
The Shaykh : But they distinguish, saying that there is a difference between tawassul through the self and tawassul through status.
The questioner : Yes, they say so.
The Shaykh : Okay, I say there is no difference; the result is the same. But between saying this or that out of sectarianism and clinging to what the fathers and grandfathers were upon, or saying it out of personal conviction, as al-Shawkani said; what do you remember al-Shawkani said? Did he say tawassul through the self or through status?
The questioner : I think through status, Shaykh.
The Shaykh : I do not think so. Look at this book.
The questioner : Shaykh, they say that he I ask you by the right of this path of mine and the rightThe questioner : of yours, Shaykh. Abu 'Abd al-Rahman.
The Shaykh : *Tuhfat al-Dhakirin*, yes.
The questioner : They say, Shaykh, that Imam Ahmad (may Allah have mercy on him) has a doubt regarding the hadith, but those who seek nearness through the self do not have a doubt.
The Shaykh : No, on the contrary, the matter is the opposite, the opposite. The one who says through the self, his doubt is the hadith; as for status, there is no hadith about it.
The questioner : The apparent text is: "O Allah, I ask You by the right of this path of mine and the rightThe questioner : of Yours." And in the other narration, "and by the right of Your Prophet," but this narration is weak. So they say that Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal authenticated it, and it is weak. So he was wrong, but because he thought this hadith was authentic...
The Shaykh : Where did the Imam authenticate the hadith?
The questioner : I mean, he acted upon it, Shaykh.
The Shaykh : This is contrary to the principles of hadith.
The questioner : I mean, acting upon it is not from...?
The Shaykh : Do you know this?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Praise be to Allah. What does it say?
Al-Halabi : Here it says under the heading "The Aspect of Tawassul Through the Prophets and the Righteous": "And one seeks nearness to Allah, the Exalted, through His prophets and the righteous." I mean, Ibn al-Jazari.
The Shaykh : Who says this?
Al-Halabi : Ibn al-Jazari.
The Shaykh : Do we declare him a disbeliever then? It is not permissible for us to declare him a disbeliever.
Al-Halabi : "I say, and among tawassul through the prophets is what al-Tirmidhi narrated in the hadith of the blind man. And as for tawassul through the righteous, among them is what is established in the authentic collections that the Companions sought rain through al-'Abbas (may Allah be pleased with him), the uncle of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him)." But our Shaykh, it seems, and Allah knows best, has a clearer phrase in *al-Durr al-Nadid*. This is in my mind: *al-Durr al-Nadid* in the sincerity of the word of tawhid has a clearer phrase, even though he strongly condemns calling for aid (istighathah) in it, but he spoke in it with similar words, just a bit simpler.
The Shaykh : Yes, no problem, but does he condemn it?
Al-Halabi : No, he does not condemn it. I mean, my intention is the distinction between the self and status.
The Shaykh : No, let us be with 'Abdullah, O 'Abdullah; because he is saying here about the distinction, he is talking about tawassul through the self.
Al-Halabi : Yes, that is correct.
The Shaykh : Okay, so tawassul through the self is what al-Shawkani says is permissible here, following Ibn al-Jazari, saying tawassul through the self.
Al-Halabi: Correct.
The Shaykh : They distinguish, as you heard from your companion just now, between tawassul through the self and tawassul through status. The hadith of the blind man is closer to indicating tawassul through the self than tawassul through status; because tawassul through status is not mentioned at all in the hadith, neither in the context nor in the preceding text. Therefore, he and Ibn al-Jazari and others said this. So now he argues with the hadith of the blind man, as if he is correcting himself that it is not the argument with the hadith of the blind man, but with the hadith of the supplication when going out to the mosque, with which he argues.The Shaykh : Muhammad ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab. And on this occasion, a storm arose against us regarding our word about Muhammad ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab. Has it subsided or is it still ongoing?
The questioner : No, it has subsided.
The Shaykh : Hah, Subhan Allah! So the hadith "O Allah, I ask You by the rightThe questioner : of Yours," also, this does not contain either the self or the status. Therefore, this hadith, if it were authentic, could be interpreted to something that does not conflict with the prescribed tawassul, because as it was said, the right of the one seeking nearness orThe questioner : of Yours is the response from Allah. So the matter returns to what? To an attribute of Allah. But status has a relation to the person, as we said, so it is not valid to argue with this hadith for the permissibility of tawassul through the status of the created human being. If it were authentic, we would be the first to say so, with the condition of understanding it in the correct way and refuting those who argue with it for the innovated tawassul, because this does not contain innovated tawassul, but rather it is tawassul by the rightThe questioner : of Yours and the right of this path of mine, which is the reward and recompense with Allah, Blessed and Exalted is He. So, Shaykh 'Abdullah, the distinction between this and that has no place in the grammar. Have they been fifty minutes times ten, or not?
The questioner : No, they have.
Al-Halabi : The Ikhwan from the Covenant of Allah.
The questioner : The brothers.
The Shaykh : The Mutawwifin, I don't know what they were?
The questioner : The Ikhwan who fought King 'Abd al-'Aziz.
Al-Halabi : The king who called them the Ikhwan from the Covenant of Allah.
The Shaykh : There was strictness among them, and it appears that this is the decree of Allah in His creation, except for those whom Allah protects. And their hearts were not as He (peace be upon him) said:
Every deed has an enthusiasm, and every enthusiasm has a lull. Whoever's lull is to my two ways (the Qur'an and the Sunnah) has guided himself, and whoever's lull is to an innovation has gone astray.
إن لكل عمل شرّة ولكل شرّة فترة فمن كانت فترته إلى سنتي فقد اهتدى ومن كانت فترته إلى بدعة فقد ضلThe questioner : Khawarij.
The Shaykh : Or they called them Khawarij, and so on. When I started traveling to those lands, I saw in their followers some of this strictness. It is sufficient to say that merely because one person seeks nearness to Allah through the innovated tawassul, which we all agree is disbelief and shirk, we should not simply say it is disbelief or shirk. We must examine the matter in detail: what does this person who seeks nearness mean? What does he want? Otherwise, we would declare a leader among the leaders of the Muslims to be a disbeliever and a polytheist, namely Muhammad ibn 'Ali al-Shawkani, because he said that seeking nearness is permissible. Do you know this?
The questioner : I mean through the status, through the status of the Messenger?
The Shaykh : Through the Messenger after his death.
The questioner : Through the status of the Messenger or through his person?
The Shaykh : Through his person; I am not currently recalling...
The questioner : It appears to be through his status, and likewise Ahmad ibn Hanbal (may Allah have mercy on him) regarding the permissibility of seeking nearness through the status of the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him and his family)...
The Shaykh : But do you not feel with me that stopping at these words is rigid? If seeking nearness through the status differs from seeking nearness through the person, then the one who seeks nearness through the status is not censured, and the one who seeks nearness through the person is censured?
The questioner : No, both are censured.
The Shaykh : So what is the result of the distinction?
The questioner : The distinction is that one is declared a disbeliever and the other is not.
The Shaykh : Why is one declared a disbeliever and not the other?
The questioner : Because regarding the person, we are forbidden from seeking nearness through the person. As for the status, they have texts regarding it and they have a doubt.
The Shaykh : Do not prolong the answer on me, you are going to tire me now. What is the difference between this tawassul, which you say is shirk, and that they have evidence...
The questioner : No, Shaykh, because the text forbidding seeking nearness through the person is clearer than the text regarding seeking nearness through the status.
The Shaykh : Where is the prohibition? Where is this prohibition?
The questioner : The prohibition is that one does not call for aid through me, but calls for aid through Allah.
The Shaykh : We are discussing tawassul, not istighathah (calling for aid).
Al-Halabi : Assuming the hadith is correct, Shaykh, and it is not.
The Shaykh : That is correct.
The questioner : Through tawassul...
The Shaykh : There is no prohibition, Professor, no explicit prohibition; but the knowledgeable Muslim, when he follows the Sunnah and its texts regarding seeking nearness through the names of Allah or an attribute of Allah or through righteous deeds, finds that this tawassul is contrary to this prescribed tawassul. This is one point. The other is that this tawassul through a created being may lead to exalting it, if it does not lead to deifying it. Do you understand how?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : So if it does not lead to exalting it and deifying it, it is contrary to the Sunnah.
The questioner : The saying of Allah (Blessed and Exalted is He):
We only worship them that they may bring us nearer to Allah in position
ما نعبدهم إلا ليقربونا إلى الله زلفىThe Shaykh : Glory be to Allah! And what is the connection of these verses to tawassul here? Tawassul is to say, "O Allah, I ask You and turn to You through Your Prophet, the Prophet of Mercy, to forgive me." What is the connection to
We only worship them that they may bring us nearer to Allah in position
ما نعبدهم إلا ليقربونا إلى الله زلفىThe questioner : And this innovated intermediary, Shaykh, Allah has censured them for it.
And what did I say?
The questioner : You agree with me, Shaykh, that it is an innovation, but I mean...
The Shaykh : But you asked me how it is with me regarding something you are asking me about.
The questioner : No, you want from me evidence for the impermissibility of tawassul...
The Shaykh: Allahu Akbar.
The questioner : I mean regarding the prohibition.
The Shaykh : Yes, regarding the prohibition that confirms it is contrary to the Sunnah, otherwise you are now complicating your situation, wanting to prove to me that it is shirk.
The questioner : What, Shaykh?
The Shaykh : The one who says in his supplication, "O Allah, I ask You through Your Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him and his family) to forgive me," do you say this is shirk? Like one who abandons prayer?
The questioner : The one who seeks nearness through the person of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him and his family)?
The Shaykh : Allah is the Greatest, and what am I saying? I am saying the one who says in his supplication, "I ask You through Your Prophet," today the Messenger is dead, is this shirk like one who abandons prayer?
Al-Halabi : Shaykh, regarding the origin of this, meaning the distinction between the person and the status, do you remember anyone who said this before?
The Shaykh : We need to reach a conclusion, but he is now jumping like a gazelle, Professor 'Ali. We moved from the topic of what is prescribed to what is not prescribed to it being disbelief. And this is the exaggeration of the group, which is what we are complaining about.
We only worship them that they may bring us nearer to Allah in position
ما نعبدهم إلا ليقربونا إلى الله زلفىAnd those who take protectors besides Him [say], "We only worship them that they may bring us nearer to Allah in position."
والذين اتخذوا من دونه أولياء ما نعبدهم إلا ليقربونا إلى الله زلفىThe questioner : From slaughtering and circumambulation.
The Shaykh : Good, did someone like al-Shawkani do any of that?
The questioner: No.
The Shaykh : Say no. If someone like al-Shawkani, I say "like" so you do not circle around al-Shawkani, if someone like al-Shawkani says, "O Allah, I ask You through Muhammad to forgive me," did he slaughter for him?
The questioner : No, he did not slaughter.
The Shaykh : And so on, is this a polytheist?
The questioner : No, he is not a polytheist.
The Shaykh : Is it permissible to use the previous verse as evidence against him?
The questioner: No.
The Shaykh : This is what you are doing, and here lies the error. You must, when you research these dangerous and precise issues, distinguish between one whose entire action is shirk, and it is said this tawassul is of this type, because a person is driven by the beliefs and ideas he is saturated with. If a person, say so-and-so, is saturated with the belief that he does not slaughter except for Allah, does not vow except to Allah, is not circumambulated except around the House of Allah, and does not call except to Allah in times of hardship. Say what you want of the negatives, no, no, no, and so on, there is nothing; but he says, "I believe it is permissible to say, 'O Allah, forgive me through the status of Muhammad, I ask You through Muhammad to forgive me.'" What is the evidence for this being shirk, because Allah says on the tongue of the polytheists
And those who take protectors besides Him [say], "We only worship them that they may bring us nearer to Allah in position."
و الذين اتخذوا من دونه أولياء ما نعبدهم إلا ليقربونا إلى الله زلفىThe questioner : The second verse, okay?
The Shaykh : Go ahead.
The questioner : These are our intercessors with Allah.
The Shaykh : He does not say these are our intercessors with Allah; he asks and seeks nearness, so either Allah responds or He does not; so this is not like the saying of the polytheists who are certain that these gods, which have no reality, are their intercessors with Allah (Blessed and Exalted is He).
Al-Halabi : This is very subtle.
The questioner : And if he believes that this wali (close friend of Allah) or...
The Shaykh : If he believes, we return to creedal disbelief and practical disbelief, and this is what we want from you, that you distinguish between them. And I am going to give you an example of a person who does not have all this creed. Al-Shawkani, I believe, of course, now we need to talk about his person, I believe you do not disagree with us when we say that he has a great merit in spreading tawhid (the oneness of Allah) in Yemen, even though the merit returns to the one with the primary merit, Muhammad ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab, and all of that returns to Muhammad ibn 'Abd Allah. Ah; so we do not believe that al-Shawkani had any creedal disbelief in himself, but he exerted effort and thought that the hadith of the blind man was in effect after the death of the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him and his family), so he said the permissibility of tawassul in the manner that was said about Imam Ahmad. If Imam Ahmad had mentioned the word, what? The status. And now we need to see what is the difference between tawassul through the status or through the person, what is the difference? Tawassul through the person is tawassul through a created being, is it not?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Okay, and tawassul through the status of a created being, is it tawassul through the Creator or a created being?
The questioner : Tawassul through a created being.
The Shaykh : What is the difference?
The questioner : The difference is that this self is like tangible objects, such as stones; meaning, seeking nearness through the self is seeking nearness through something visible and tangible.
The Shaykh : I did not understand what you mean by seeking nearness?
The questioner : The one who seeks nearness through the self is seeking nearness through a tangible thing, while the one who seeks nearness through status is seeking nearness through a conceptual thing.
The Shaykh : No, that is not correct; it is not correct at all.
The questioner : Why? Is status a concept, Shaykh, or is it tangible?
The Shaykh : But the concept exists in the self. Is it in an inanimate object or not?
The questioner : A concept that exists in its own self.
The Shaykh : Is it separate from the self?
The questioner : No, it is not separate.
The Shaykh : So why are you separating it mentally, when in reality it is not so?
Al-Halabi : And it points to the self in the first place.
The Shaykh : That is it.
The attributes of Allah are not the self itself, nor are they other than it in a state of separation. Do you know this philosophy?
Al-Halabi : Our Shaykh, who said this?
The Shaykh : The author of the poem *Bid' al-Amali*.
Al-Halabi : Is this a Maliki, I think?
The Shaykh : No, I think he is a Hanafi.
The attributes of Allah are not the self itself, nor are they other than it in a state of separation...
The point is, is this status separate from the person?
The questioner: No.
The Shaykh : So, as they say in our region of Sham, "All roads lead to the mill." Whether you go this way or that way, they all end up meeting at the mill. If you say "self" or you say "status," it all points to a tawassul that is not prescribed. But here, the sectarianism of people becomes apparent. As long as Imam Ahmad said that tawassul through the self is permissible, and Imam Ahmad is the Imam of the Sunnah...
The questioner : Excuse me, Shaykh, through status.
The Shaykh : Excuse me, through status. Imam Ahmad, may Allah reward you with good, is the Imam of the Sunnah. So we must distinguish between the one who commits disbelief by tawassul through the self and the one who says tawassul through status. Because the Imam of the Sunnah said that tawassul through status is permissible, unlike tawassul through the self. My brother, there is no difference between this and that; say it clearly. Imam Ahmad said it based on his independent legal reasoning (ijtihad). If he was right, he has two rewards; if he was wrong, he has one reward.
The questioner : We believe he was wrong, and they believe he was wrong.
The Shaykh : But they distinguish, saying that there is a difference between tawassul through the self and tawassul through status.
The questioner : Yes, they say so.
The Shaykh : Okay, I say there is no difference; the result is the same. But between saying this or that out of sectarianism and clinging to what the fathers and grandfathers were upon, or saying it out of personal conviction, as al-Shawkani said; what do you remember al-Shawkani said? Did he say tawassul through the self or through status?
The questioner : I think through status, Shaykh.
The Shaykh : I do not think so. Look at this book.
The questioner : Shaykh, they say that he I ask you by the right of this path of mine and the rightThe questioner : of yours, Shaykh. Abu 'Abd al-Rahman.
The Shaykh : *Tuhfat al-Dhakirin*, yes.
The questioner : They say, Shaykh, that Imam Ahmad (may Allah have mercy on him) has a doubt regarding the hadith, but those who seek nearness through the self do not have a doubt.
The Shaykh : No, on the contrary, the matter is the opposite, the opposite. The one who says through the self, his doubt is the hadith; as for status, there is no hadith about it.
The questioner : The apparent text is: "O Allah, I ask You by the right of this path of mine and the rightThe questioner : of Yours." And in the other narration, "and by the right of Your Prophet," but this narration is weak. So they say that Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal authenticated it, and it is weak. So he was wrong, but because he thought this hadith was authentic...
The Shaykh : Where did the Imam authenticate the hadith?
The questioner : I mean, he acted upon it, Shaykh.
The Shaykh : This is contrary to the principles of hadith.
The questioner : I mean, acting upon it is not from...?
The Shaykh : Do you know this?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Praise be to Allah. What does it say?
Al-Halabi : Here it says under the heading "The Aspect of Tawassul Through the Prophets and the Righteous": "And one seeks nearness to Allah, the Exalted, through His prophets and the righteous." I mean, Ibn al-Jazari.
The Shaykh : Who says this?
Al-Halabi : Ibn al-Jazari.
The Shaykh : Do we declare him a disbeliever then? It is not permissible for us to declare him a disbeliever.
Al-Halabi : "I say, and among tawassul through the prophets is what al-Tirmidhi narrated in the hadith of the blind man. And as for tawassul through the righteous, among them is what is established in the authentic collections that the Companions sought rain through al-'Abbas (may Allah be pleased with him), the uncle of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him)." But our Shaykh, it seems, and Allah knows best, has a clearer phrase in *al-Durr al-Nadid*. This is in my mind: *al-Durr al-Nadid* in the sincerity of the word of tawhid has a clearer phrase, even though he strongly condemns calling for aid (istighathah) in it, but he spoke in it with similar words, just a bit simpler.
The Shaykh : Yes, no problem, but does he condemn it?
Al-Halabi : No, he does not condemn it. I mean, my intention is the distinction between the self and status.
The Shaykh : No, let us be with 'Abdullah, O 'Abdullah; because he is saying here about the distinction, he is talking about tawassul through the self.
Al-Halabi : Yes, that is correct.
The Shaykh : Okay, so tawassul through the self is what al-Shawkani says is permissible here, following Ibn al-Jazari, saying tawassul through the self.
Al-Halabi: Correct.
The Shaykh : They distinguish, as you heard from your companion just now, between tawassul through the self and tawassul through status. The hadith of the blind man is closer to indicating tawassul through the self than tawassul through status; because tawassul through status is not mentioned at all in the hadith, neither in the context nor in the preceding text. Therefore, he and Ibn al-Jazari and others said this. So now he argues with the hadith of the blind man, as if he is correcting himself that it is not the argument with the hadith of the blind man, but with the hadith of the supplication when going out to the mosque, with which he argues.The Shaykh : Muhammad ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab. And on this occasion, a storm arose against us regarding our word about Muhammad ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab. Has it subsided or is it still ongoing?
The questioner : No, it has subsided.
The Shaykh : Hah, Subhan Allah! So the hadith "O Allah, I ask You by the rightThe questioner : of Yours," also, this does not contain either the self or the status. Therefore, this hadith, if it were authentic, could be interpreted to something that does not conflict with the prescribed tawassul, because as it was said, the right of the one seeking nearness orThe questioner : of Yours is the response from Allah. So the matter returns to what? To an attribute of Allah. But status has a relation to the person, as we said, so it is not valid to argue with this hadith for the permissibility of tawassul through the status of the created human being. If it were authentic, we would be the first to say so, with the condition of understanding it in the correct way and refuting those who argue with it for the innovated tawassul, because this does not contain innovated tawassul, but rather it is tawassul by the rightThe questioner : of Yours and the right of this path of mine, which is the reward and recompense with Allah, Blessed and Exalted is He. So, Shaykh 'Abdullah, the distinction between this and that has no place in the grammar. Have they been fifty minutes times ten, or not?
The questioner : No, they have.
Source
www.al-albany.com
The Arabic text is copied verbatim from the original source, without any edits.