Speaking about those who describe Allah as non-existence.

The Shaykh : I am asking you now, what is your opinion of this statement: "Allah, Mighty and Majestic, is not described as being above, below, right, left, front, or back, nor inside the world nor outside of it." What is your opinion of this statement?
Ali: It is neither connected to Him nor separated from Him.

The Shaykh : No, then, Professor.

The questioner : I will answer you, my sir. This statement, if it is understood from them as negating place, then this is correct. But if it is... and since Allah, Mighty and Majestic, is above, we understand it in the sense of rank and spiritual elevation. So if their intention is to negate place, we are with them.

The Shaykh : You deviated from the answer.

The questioner : If their intention is...

The Shaykh : Enough, enough.

The questioner : How did you deviate?

The Shaykh : Did you hear the word "intention" from me?

The questioner : How? I am saying the word "intention."

The Shaykh : I am telling you that you deviated. I am telling you that you deviated from the answer.

The questioner : How?

The Shaykh : And I am asking you, did you hear the word "intention" from me? Say no.

The questioner : No.

The Shaykh : Okay, then why did you insert the word "intention" when I did not insert this word in my speech?

The questioner : I want to answer. How do I explain my answer... Now, I want to answer you. I have to use new words, it is not necessary, meaning.

The Shaykh : May Allah guide you, my brother. Every question has an answer. Every question has an answer. I am telling you, what do you say about the one who says...

The questioner : This is a correct statement.

The Shaykh : Yes?

The questioner : This is a correct statement.

The Shaykh : Authentic

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh: Okay

The questioner : And what is mentioned in the Book is a completion...

The Shaykh : No, no, no, but one word and it covered it. May Allah guide you.

The questioner : He is doing well.

The Shaykh : So now, if I say this statement is correct, and this statement is not correct according to us, are we not asking you what is your proof?

The questioner : Oh, excellent, but I do not want...

The Shaykh : Be patient, be patient. May Allah guide you.

The questioner : May Allah reward you with good.

The Shaykh : May Allah guide you. Be patient. I am telling you, we are not asking you what is the evidence if you say this statement is correct and it is not correct according to us. Are we not asking you about the evidence?

The questioner : Correct.

The Shaykh : Then why do you want...

The questioner : I want to elaborate, but it is a small matter. This statement is correct...

The Shaykh : For you, my brother, elaborate if you need elaboration.
Ali: It will suffice you.The Shaykh : From elaboration.

The questioner : Okay, fine. I am telling you this statement is correct.

The Shaykh : Correct.

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh : So does that mean Allah is not inside the universe nor outside of it?

The questioner : Without a doubt.

The Shaykh : Allah is the Greatest, Allah is the Greatest. Are we not asking you now, when you have nothing, insert whatever evidence you wish? Does this not equal the statement of the *mu'attilah* (those who deny attributes) who say there is nothing but matter?

The questioner : No, it does not equal it.

The Shaykh : Why? Not inside the created world nor outside the created world.

The questioner : Excellent. I will tell you, this statement does not equal the statement of the *mu'attilah*. Why? Because the *mu'attil*...

The Shaykh : My brother, the question is not whether it equals or does not equal now. Look, now you have gone beyond the previous statement. What do you say about the one who says Allah is not inside the world nor outside of it?

The questioner : Correct.

The Shaykh : Yes.

The questioner : Correct.

The Shaykh : Okay, so what is the difference between this statement and the one who says there is nothing but matter?

The questioner : There is a difference, and the difference is as follows. The difference is that the *mu'attil* denies the existence of Allah, meaning completely. But the one who says that Allah, Mighty and Majestic, is not inside the world nor outside of it, he affirms the existence of Allah but purifies Him from being in a place.

The Shaykh : May Allah guide you.

The questioner : So there is nothing like Him.

The Shaykh : May Allah guide you.

The questioner : This is the difference. Is my statement clear or not?

The Shaykh : No, it is not clear

The questioner : Let me repeat it.

The Shaykh : Keep the question with me. Did we not agree earlier that place is an existent thing?

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh : Okay, you are now denying the existence of Allah outside of place.

The questioner : No.

The Shaykh : Listen, he said no. May Allah guide you.
Ali: Celebrate, my Shaykh, no harm...

The questioner : Outside the world, place. Outside the world is not a place, meaning outside the world is not a place either.

The Shaykh : No, it is not a place. May Allah guide you.

The questioner : Then what is outside the world?

The Shaykh : Haha, this is your problem. You do not distinguish between the...

The questioner : Excellent. I mean, I carried the answer. I am carrying it. It is possible, it is possible that our goal is one and we agree, but there may be a dispute in terminology. I intend that this differs from the *mu'attil*.

The Shaykh : ..

The questioner : He, let me... My sir, carry me, and I am like your son. I intend that he differs from him. That this requires, meaning, he needs to affirm the negation of place. So the one who said this statement considers that inside the world is a place and outside the world is a place, so he said Allah is not inside nor outside...

The Shaykh : This indicates that you are a contradictory person in yourself.

The questioner : No.

The Shaykh : No, no, no.

The questioner : How?

The Shaykh : The one who says that place is an existent thing. The one who said with us earlier that place is an existent thing, not mental, correct?

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh : Did you not say it?

The questioner : Correct.

The Shaykh : Okay, now other than place.

The questioner : ... I am learning, haha. We need to put this idea down.

The Shaykh : May Allah reward you with good. In any case, there is a difference between you and others, and we hope that our Lord will guide us all.

The questioner : May Allah reward you with good.

The Shaykh : May Allah bless you. This place, according to all people of intellect, cannot be conceived except that it is an existent thing, correct?

The questioner : Yes, this is sound speech.

The Shaykh : Okay, other than place is a mental thing, meaning a non-existent thing.

The questioner : Mental, yes, this, yes, but non-existent, I have not yet grasped it.

The Shaykh : You will grasp it, if Allah wills.

The questioner : How? I am a student of knowledge and I am still on the shelves. Explain it to me...

The Shaykh : That is why I indulged you when you said you do not follow the speech of people. That is why.
Ali: I did not forget it, my Shaykh.

The Shaykh : I do not forget anything. I would split the stone, were it not that Allah, Mighty and Majestic, has blessed man with some patience, forbearance, knowledge, patience with people, and guiding them and directing them, and so on. My brother, are we not in agreement that Allah was and nothing was with Him? Nothing with Him. Non-existence and no existence. Other than Him, is it non-existence and no existence?

The questioner : Non-existence.

The Shaykh : Okay, is this non-existence a place?

The questioner : No, because place is existent. We agreed.

The Shaykh : Haha, Halimah returned to her old habit. You and I.

The questioner : ... There is a mistake.

The Shaykh : Yes, yes. No, I did not speak correctly. I am telling you, you and I returned to place. So place is an existent thing, and other than it is a non-existent thing.

The questioner : Or mental.
Ali: Or mental.

The Shaykh : We agreed. Okay.

The questioner : Yes, excellent, but there is a point. Allow me.

The Shaykh : But it should not be two points.

The questioner : No, one point.

The Shaykh : Fine, go ahead.

The questioner : One point, which is that since we agreed, the term "place" is not applied except to the existent thing. As for the non-existent thing, we say it is non-existent and we are silent. We do not say that a place is non-existent. Meaning, place is not described as non-existence.

The Shaykh : No.

The questioner : Correct.

The Shaykh : My brother, but what is the benefit of it? May Allah guide you.

The questioner : I want to reach a point that some people say...

The Shaykh : We are telling you...

The questioner : Allah exists in the non-existent place. We tell them, no, that is not correct, correct? Allah, Mighty and Majestic, exists without a place. So you do not say "non-existent place." Connect this to that.
Ali: And it brings you news from those you did not increase.

The questioner : By Allah, my sir, we are learning.
Ali: If Allah wills.

The questioner : Wisdom is the lost property of the believer.
Ali: This is the assumption about you, if Allah wills.

The Shaykh : So other than place is not a place.

The questioner : Correct.

The Shaykh : Okay, so is it permissible, after this clarification that I have clarified for you, for the Muslim who believes in the Book and the Sunnah to say that Allah, Mighty and Majestic, is not inside the world nor outside of it? Is this statement permissible?
Ali: Strengthen your heart.

The questioner : By Allah, as I told you, I want the truth and I am thinking very seriously.
Ali: May Allah bless you. By Allah, this opens the chest, if Allah wills.

The Shaykh : Look, my brother.

The questioner : I am thinking. I want to think and see.

The Shaykh : No, what did you understand from me? I am telling you, look, my brother.

The questioner : Please go ahead.

The Shaykh : I am not telling you to speak, no. There is a difference in this point. A big difference. What is the reason? The reason is that they mixed up the existent place with the non-existent place, and we do not call it a place. They mixed up...

The questioner : Exception, excellent.

The Shaykh : Hahaha. This mixing is what led many sects astray. And there is no harm in me telling you this story.

The questioner : May Allah reward you with good. By Allah, if Allah wills, there are benefits in this night.
Ali: We hope.

The Shaykh : If Allah wills. Is this from you or from...Abu Layla
Ali: It went. It is not from...Abu Layla

The Shaykh : Yes.

Another questioner : It went from him.

The Shaykh : It went from him, so I tell you, may Allah make you easy.
Ali: Gathered, my Shaykh.

Another questioner : The hint from...Abu Layla

The Shaykh : Hehehe.
Ali: The one who points to good is like the one who does it.

The Shaykh : In one of the seasons of Hajj, and in some of the days of Mina, we were there, and praise be to Allah, sitting in a blessed evening. Some pilgrims were gathered sitting with us, talking about what our Lord facilitated for us of scientific speech. An Azhar Shaykh passed by. He heard a religious hadith, so he sat down. There is no doubt that every scholar, when he engages in a research and another scholar sits with him, understands his direction, for example, Salafi, Khalafi, Hanafi, Shafi'i, Sunni, Shi'ah, and so on.

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh : Ah, the man, in his opinion, based on his method of research, thinks that my method is that of the Salaf al-Salih (the earliest generations). And as is the opinion of many of the masses of students of knowledge and shaykhs, this style of speech implies that I am a Wahhabi. It is clear that the Wahhabis, who are the Najdis, are accused regarding their 'aqidah (creed), their madhhab (school of jurisprudence), and so on. And these are, without a doubt, accusations that have no basis. We are Hanbalis and we adhere to the madhhab of Imam Ahmad, whether in the usul (principles), i.e., 'aqidah, or in the furu' (branches), the important matters.
Abu Layla : The man said, "Repeat the word. The man said..."

The Shaykh : Ah, the man said, "You have goodness and blessing in you, but you are Mujassimah (those who ascribe a body to Allah) and Mushabbihah (those who liken Allah to creation)." I said to him, "How so?" He said, "Because you make Allah, Mighty and Majestic, or you say that Allah, Mighty and Majestic, is above the Throne." I said to him, "O Shaykh, this is our speech; this is the speech of the Lord of the Worlds." He said, "Correct, but I mean that by your belief in this verse, you take it at its apparent meaning. That is the point." I said to him, "My brother, we believe in what came in the Book and the Sunnah without tashbih (likening Allah to creation) and without ta'til (denial of the divine attributes), without tashbih and without ta'til. And now we prove to you, in your own language and with your own knowledge, that we do not say that Allah is in a place when we say: or . He said, "How?" I asked him the previous question and what follows it. I said to him, "Is 'place' (al-makan) something existent or non-existent?" He said, "No, it is existent." I said to him, "Good. Is this existent thing limited or absolute? Is the universe limited or absolute?" He said, "No, it is limited." We will ask a question that gives an answer with no disagreement in it. I said, "Okay, what is above us?" He said, "The first heaven of the world." I said, "And the second and the third?" He said, "Yes." "And the seventh?" He said, "Yes." I said, "And what is above the seventh?" He said, "The Throne."