A discussion regarding the issue: exchanging nine iron dirhams for ten paper dirhams.
Machine translationRead the Arabic original
The Shaykh : A man sold nine iron dirhams for ten paper dirhams.
The student: Nine dirhams for ten dirhams, ten dirhams of paper, of paper.
The Shaykh : Yes, nine iron dirhams.
The student: Yes, this is...
The Shaykh : Wait, wait.
The student: This was in my father's fatwa, because this was not our exchange.
The Shaykh : What was your exchange?
The student: Because some people spoke about this topic.
The Shaykh : The important thing now is nine iron dirhams for ten paper dirhams; what do you say, is it permissible or not permissible?
The student: Permissible.
The Shaykh : Permissible
The student: According to your fatwa.
The Shaykh : Not according to my fatwa, it is permissible.
The student: ...
The Shaykh : Wait, is it permissible to delay the exchange? That is, I give you the nine now and you give me the ten after a day; is that permissible? Why?
The student: It is not from the riba categories.
The Shaykh : Because it is not from the riba categories. Okay, we count gold, silver, dates, barley, wheat, and salt. We do not find it [in these]. So, excess and delayed exchange are permissible in it. Okay, there is leeway in this, praise be to Allah. Rest, give another answer besides this. Come on.
The student: ...
The Shaykh : Yes, that means it must be ten for ten and we must exchange them before parting, because it is in the meaning of gold and silver. Okay, look at the difference between the two opinions. The first says there is no riba, so exchange with excess and delayed exchange, because it is not from the six categories. The second says it must be equal and what? And exchanged, because it is in the meaning of gold and silver. Is there no other opinion?
The student: ... .
The Shaykh : This is the middle one; it says excess is permissible but exchange is necessary, because the types differ; this is iron and this is paper. Okay, this opinion is the middle opinion between the two opinions: the brother's opinion and the second brother's opinion. This one permitted it absolutely, and this one prohibited it absolutely, and this became the middle. And the prevailing view is that the middle opinion is the correct one, because the best of matters is the middle. So, the correct view with us is that it is permissible to sell nine iron dirhams for ten paper dirhams, even if their origin in the state was a single price. But this is a regulation by the state and does not correspond to reality, because people's desires differ in this. And what the brother said is not the opinion of a layman; it is the opinion of scholars. That is, some scholars said these papers have no riba at all; there is no riba; buy ten for ten, ten for twenty, ten for five, with exchange or without exchange. And others said no, equality and exchange are necessary. And a third opinion: the middle one. And a fourth opinion: it says it is not permissible to deal with these papers at all except in extreme necessity, because these papers are certificates on the state, so it is a transfer, a transfer of what? A transfer of debt for debt. And it is not permissible except in necessity, in which case it becomes permissible, just as eating carrion is permissible in necessity. And based on that, if it is sufficient for you to buy ten loaves of bread for your family, and they are ten, then it is not permissible for you to buy eleven loaves, because the extra one, what is it? You have no necessity for it. You have a garment; it is not permissible for you to buy a new garment as long as this washed garment is going. Do not buy a new garment, why? Because it is not permissible to deal with these papers except in necessity. And there is no doubt that this opinion is a weak opinion, rather, it is impossible to know it absolutely. And it contains hardship for the Muslims that no one knows except Allah. And the best of the opinions is that these currencies have riba al-nasi'ah between them, not riba al-fadl. So, the excess between them is permissible if the types differ, but exchange before parting is necessary. And we can take this from the generality of His saying:Sahih Muslim 1587c.
The student: Nine dirhams for ten dirhams, ten dirhams of paper, of paper.
The Shaykh : Yes, nine iron dirhams.
The student: Yes, this is...
The Shaykh : Wait, wait.
The student: This was in my father's fatwa, because this was not our exchange.
The Shaykh : What was your exchange?
The student: Because some people spoke about this topic.
The Shaykh : The important thing now is nine iron dirhams for ten paper dirhams; what do you say, is it permissible or not permissible?
The student: Permissible.
The Shaykh : Permissible
The student: According to your fatwa.
The Shaykh : Not according to my fatwa, it is permissible.
The student: ...
The Shaykh : Wait, is it permissible to delay the exchange? That is, I give you the nine now and you give me the ten after a day; is that permissible? Why?
The student: It is not from the riba categories.
The Shaykh : Because it is not from the riba categories. Okay, we count gold, silver, dates, barley, wheat, and salt. We do not find it [in these]. So, excess and delayed exchange are permissible in it. Okay, there is leeway in this, praise be to Allah. Rest, give another answer besides this. Come on.
The student: ...
The Shaykh : Yes, that means it must be ten for ten and we must exchange them before parting, because it is in the meaning of gold and silver. Okay, look at the difference between the two opinions. The first says there is no riba, so exchange with excess and delayed exchange, because it is not from the six categories. The second says it must be equal and what? And exchanged, because it is in the meaning of gold and silver. Is there no other opinion?
The student: ... .
The Shaykh : This is the middle one; it says excess is permissible but exchange is necessary, because the types differ; this is iron and this is paper. Okay, this opinion is the middle opinion between the two opinions: the brother's opinion and the second brother's opinion. This one permitted it absolutely, and this one prohibited it absolutely, and this became the middle. And the prevailing view is that the middle opinion is the correct one, because the best of matters is the middle. So, the correct view with us is that it is permissible to sell nine iron dirhams for ten paper dirhams, even if their origin in the state was a single price. But this is a regulation by the state and does not correspond to reality, because people's desires differ in this. And what the brother said is not the opinion of a layman; it is the opinion of scholars. That is, some scholars said these papers have no riba at all; there is no riba; buy ten for ten, ten for twenty, ten for five, with exchange or without exchange. And others said no, equality and exchange are necessary. And a third opinion: the middle one. And a fourth opinion: it says it is not permissible to deal with these papers at all except in extreme necessity, because these papers are certificates on the state, so it is a transfer, a transfer of what? A transfer of debt for debt. And it is not permissible except in necessity, in which case it becomes permissible, just as eating carrion is permissible in necessity. And based on that, if it is sufficient for you to buy ten loaves of bread for your family, and they are ten, then it is not permissible for you to buy eleven loaves, because the extra one, what is it? You have no necessity for it. You have a garment; it is not permissible for you to buy a new garment as long as this washed garment is going. Do not buy a new garment, why? Because it is not permissible to deal with these papers except in necessity. And there is no doubt that this opinion is a weak opinion, rather, it is impossible to know it absolutely. And it contains hardship for the Muslims that no one knows except Allah. And the best of the opinions is that these currencies have riba al-nasi'ah between them, not riba al-fadl. So, the excess between them is permissible if the types differ, but exchange before parting is necessary. And we can take this from the generality of His saying: