It is stated in this letter regarding the debate between the two noble imams, Ahmad ibn Hanbal and Imam al-Shafi'i (may Allah be pleased with both of them), which is found in the book *Fiqh al-Sunnah*, volume
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The questioner : In this letter, it is mentioned regarding the debate between the two noble imams, Ahmad ibn Hanbal and Imam al-Shafi'i (may Allah be pleased with both of them), which is found in the book *Fiqh al-Sunnah*, volume one, by Sayyid Sabiq, page ninety-five. The debate is mentioned by al-Subki in *Tabaqat al-Shafi'iyyah*, where it is stated that al-Shafi'i and Ahmad (may Allah be pleased with both of them) debated regarding the one who abandons prayer. Al-Shafi'i said, "O Ahmad, do you say that he becomes a disbeliever?" He said, "Yes." Al-Shafi'i said, "If he is a disbeliever, by what does he become a Muslim?" He said, "He says, 'There is no god but Allah, Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.'" Al-Shafi'i said, "The man is already maintaining this statement; he has not abandoned it." He said, "He becomes a Muslim by praying." Al-Shafi'i said, "The prayer of a disbeliever is not valid, and he is not ruled to be a Muslim by it." Then Imam Ahmad (may Allah have mercy on him) remained silent. What is the opinion of the honorable Shaykh in responding to this letter regarding this debate? I hope you will explain what this debate means. Finally, I ask Allah to gather us and you in goodness?
The Shaykh : Amen.
The questioner : Amen.
The Shaykh : We say regarding this debate, first, that it needs to be established, meaning it must be proven that it took place between Imam al-Shafi'i and Imam Ahmad (may Allah have mercy on him). It must be established from them with a valid chain of narration that is acceptable according to the conditions of the hadith scholars. Also, the mere transmission of it by al-Subki, who lived hundreds of years after Imam al-Shafi'i and Imam Ahmad, does not constitute proof of its authenticity from them. Furthermore, the expressions used in it are harsh, and it is highly unlikely that they would come from Imam al-Shafi'i to Imam Ahmad, given that al-Shafi'i is known for his complete respect befitting the status of Imam Ahmad and the status of al-Shafi'i (may Allah have mercy on them all). Moreover, this debate contradicts what is known in the school of Imam Ahmad. What is known in the school of Imam Ahmad (may Allah have mercy on him) is that one who is declared a disbeliever for abandoning prayer does not become a Muslim except by performing it, and if he performs it and prays, he is ruled to be a Muslim. This is what is known from the school of Imam Ahmad (may Allah have mercy on him).
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Likewise, the listener and the questioner should know that one who disbelieves in something does not become a Muslim merely by testifying that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, until he validates what he disbelieved in. For example, if it is assumed that he says, "I testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah," while he denies the obligation of zakah, fasting, or Hajj, he does not become a Muslim by his statement, "I testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah," until he acknowledges the obligation of those principles whose obligation he denied.
The important point is that the rule regarding the disbeliever who has apostatized is that if he apostatizes due to a specific type of disbelief, it is not sufficient for him to testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, until he comes to what, or until he validates what we ruled him a disbeliever for.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Based on this, we say that the one who abandons prayer is a disbeliever, even if he testifies that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and he does not become a Muslim except if he prays, because we declared him a disbeliever for a reason, so that reason for which we declared him a disbeliever must be removed.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Once the reason for which we declared him a disbeliever is removed, we rule that he is a Muslim. Based on this, a distinction is made between the original disbeliever who enters Islam by testifying that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and the apostate who has committed a type of apostasy, for whom it is not ruled that he is a Muslim until that thing for which we declared him a disbeliever is removed from him. This is the secret of the issue.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Therefore, what we see regarding this debate is, first, that its authenticity between the two noble imams is unlikely, due to the known respect between them, and these expressions are harsh and would not be directed by al-Shafi'i to Imam Ahmad, according to what we know of the respect one had for the other.
The second point is that its mere presence in *Tabaqat al-Shafi'iyyah* does not mean it is authentic. Rather, every statement attributed to a person must be investigated in its chain of narration leading to him, because it may be one of the statements that has no chain of narration.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Its chain of narration, meaning the chain of the statement, may be weak and not considered valid, so this is necessary. The third point is that this debate contradicts what is famous in the school of Imam Ahmad (may Allah have mercy on him), which is that one who is declared a disbeliever for abandoning prayer does not become a Muslim except by performing it, even if he testifies that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.
The Shaykh : Amen.
The questioner : Amen.
The Shaykh : We say regarding this debate, first, that it needs to be established, meaning it must be proven that it took place between Imam al-Shafi'i and Imam Ahmad (may Allah have mercy on him). It must be established from them with a valid chain of narration that is acceptable according to the conditions of the hadith scholars. Also, the mere transmission of it by al-Subki, who lived hundreds of years after Imam al-Shafi'i and Imam Ahmad, does not constitute proof of its authenticity from them. Furthermore, the expressions used in it are harsh, and it is highly unlikely that they would come from Imam al-Shafi'i to Imam Ahmad, given that al-Shafi'i is known for his complete respect befitting the status of Imam Ahmad and the status of al-Shafi'i (may Allah have mercy on them all). Moreover, this debate contradicts what is known in the school of Imam Ahmad. What is known in the school of Imam Ahmad (may Allah have mercy on him) is that one who is declared a disbeliever for abandoning prayer does not become a Muslim except by performing it, and if he performs it and prays, he is ruled to be a Muslim. This is what is known from the school of Imam Ahmad (may Allah have mercy on him).
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Likewise, the listener and the questioner should know that one who disbelieves in something does not become a Muslim merely by testifying that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, until he validates what he disbelieved in. For example, if it is assumed that he says, "I testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah," while he denies the obligation of zakah, fasting, or Hajj, he does not become a Muslim by his statement, "I testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah," until he acknowledges the obligation of those principles whose obligation he denied.
The important point is that the rule regarding the disbeliever who has apostatized is that if he apostatizes due to a specific type of disbelief, it is not sufficient for him to testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, until he comes to what, or until he validates what we ruled him a disbeliever for.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Based on this, we say that the one who abandons prayer is a disbeliever, even if he testifies that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and he does not become a Muslim except if he prays, because we declared him a disbeliever for a reason, so that reason for which we declared him a disbeliever must be removed.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Once the reason for which we declared him a disbeliever is removed, we rule that he is a Muslim. Based on this, a distinction is made between the original disbeliever who enters Islam by testifying that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and the apostate who has committed a type of apostasy, for whom it is not ruled that he is a Muslim until that thing for which we declared him a disbeliever is removed from him. This is the secret of the issue.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Therefore, what we see regarding this debate is, first, that its authenticity between the two noble imams is unlikely, due to the known respect between them, and these expressions are harsh and would not be directed by al-Shafi'i to Imam Ahmad, according to what we know of the respect one had for the other.
The second point is that its mere presence in *Tabaqat al-Shafi'iyyah* does not mean it is authentic. Rather, every statement attributed to a person must be investigated in its chain of narration leading to him, because it may be one of the statements that has no chain of narration.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Its chain of narration, meaning the chain of the statement, may be weak and not considered valid, so this is necessary. The third point is that this debate contradicts what is famous in the school of Imam Ahmad (may Allah have mercy on him), which is that one who is declared a disbeliever for abandoning prayer does not become a Muslim except by performing it, even if he testifies that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.