What is the limit of a woman's 'awrah (the part of the body that must be covered) in relation to another woman, and the limit of a woman's 'awrah in relation to her mahram (a relative one may not marry)?

The questioner : We have read in the books of fiqh (Islamic jurisprudence) and the madhahib (schools of jurisprudence) much disagreement regarding a woman's 'awrah in relation to another woman and a woman's 'awrah in relation to her mahram (a relative one may not marry). We hope you will clarify this for us, and may Allah reward you with good.

The Shaykh : We have nothing to help us answer this question except the noble verse or even until He said: . So the verse gathers the answer to both parts of the question. It clarifies that a woman is only permitted to show her mahram (a relative one may not marry) and her Muslim women the places of adornment, and nothing more than that. The places of adornment in the early period, when the noble verse was revealed, were known. We give a concrete example: it was not among the places of adornment, neither in that time nor in this time, and praise be to Allah, despite the corruption of the times, for a woman to appear before men by adorning her breasts, by adorning her breasts. So it does not fall under what He said: , meaning her chest. Why? Because the chest was not a place of adornment on the day the verse was revealed. From here, we understand clearly, with no ambiguity whatsoever, that the common saying, which we hear from some shaykhs (scholars) and some radio stations, "that a woman's 'awrah in relation to another woman is like a man's 'awrah in relation to another man, that is: from the navel to the knee," is a false statement, contrary to this noble verse. Because the verse means, of course, along with previous verses that clarify to us that a woman is 'awrah (the part of the body that must be covered) even in her face and hands according to some scholars. So if she is 'awrah (the part of the body that must be covered), and then the verse we were discussing said: to their fathers and their women, in the end, so where did you come from that it is permissible for her to expose her chest and her back, and all of that was never a place of adornment at any time, even in this corrupt time? So this is a statement that, in my opinion, must be cast aside, because every statement that contradicts the Book of Allah or the hadith (a report of the Prophet's words or deeds) of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) is something that is not permissible for a Muslim to resort to or take refuge in, as Ibn al-Qayyim al-Jawziyyah (may Allah have mercy on him) said:
"Knowledge is: Allah said, His Messenger said, *** The Companions said, it is not by deception.
Knowledge is not: you set up foolishness for disagreement *** Between the Messenger and the opinion of a jurist.
No, nor denying the attributes and negating them *** Out of fear of ta'til (denial of the divine attributes) and tashbih (likening Allah to creation)."
So we say: Allah said so and so, and you say: the shaykh (scholar) said, the scholar said, the madhhab (school of jurisprudence) said! This is not what should come from a Muslim who truly believes in Allah and His Messenger. So this verse is the basis of the topic of a woman's 'awrah in relation to mahram (a relative one may not marry)... and from it, the neck and the arms, bracelets, and what are these called? They are placed, what is their name in your language? Damlaj or what, and I have forgotten, and the anklets that are placed on the legs, the feet with a bit of the calf where these anklets are placed. This is permissible for a woman to show to her mahram (a relative one may not marry) and to her Muslim sister. Anything other than that, she wears the sleeveless shirt, which we call the "shiyal," which has no sleeves, so her upper arm is exposed, and what is under her armpit is exposed, and her chest and back are exposed. All of this is a violation of the sanctities of Allah (Blessed and Exalted is He), and this is not permissible. And now it is a quarter to ten o'clock.

The questioner : ... .

The Shaykh : Welcome.