If the callers to Islam work according to the methodology of purification and education, and the people respond to Islam, but the ruler remains in his disbelief or tyranny, is it permissible for the callers to nominate themselves in elections for the sake of changing the rule?

The questioner: That is, without a doubt, the radical cure is to reform the people. If the people are reformed, everything will be reformed.

The Shaykh: And what is the path to reforming the people?

The questioner: Spreading the da'wah, conveying it, and educating them upon it.

The Shaykh: "Sa'd led them in, and Sa'd was wrapped up. No, Sa'd, this is not how you lead in camels."

The questioner: But it can be said that this is after a large portion of the people have been reformed and there is a response, so they can impose their opinion, meaning they enter while they are strong, for example, becoming the majority, so they can change things by force. So at that time, what is your opinion? Will the situation change or remain?

The Shaykh: I didn't understand. What can be done?

The questioner: If the people, for example, through Islamic da'wah.

The Shaykh: What is the summary of what can happen afterwards?

The questioner: Complete change.

The Shaykh: The alteration.

The questioner: Complete change.

The Shaykh: Complete change of what?

The questioner: In the systems and laws. That is, if a true Islamic majority has emerged in a country, meaning the people have embraced Islam and its system, educated themselves upon it, and there is response and commitment to it, then the issue remains completing their implementation of Islam by taking over the rule. So if the ruler opens the field for elections, for example, if the majority succeeds, they become the successful majority, and the majority imposes its opinion.

The Shaykh: My brother, I am asking about the premise. I understood it, but what is the result? What is the election you mean? Is it the one we spoke about?

The questioner: Meaning the things involving the issue of vetting, the oath, and the like.

The Shaykh: I told you briefly, the one we spoke about. Say yes or say no.

The questioner: Yes, of course, this is what we spoke about. Yes.

The Shaykh: Okay, this is clear.

The questioner: I said if the Ummah.

The Shaykh: My brother, we understood, we understood. If the Ummah is educated and so on, meaning the system itself is implemented. That is, every person can nominate himself without noting whether he is righteous, whether he is a Muslim first or a disbeliever. Do you say that?

The questioner: The state.

The Shaykh: Say no, my brother.

The questioner: Of course, I am not saying what the system is that Muslims implement, but this ruler, when he announces that he has opened the field for elections, and we have a large popular response.

The Shaykh: There is no power or strength except with Allah. Why do you want to lengthen the journey?

The questioner: Let us shorten it.

The Shaykh: My brother, may Allah bless you. "The best of speech is what is brief and effective."

The questioner: Okay, good.

The Shaykh: . Advice. From the Muslims, do not lengthen the journey. It does not need one step. I am asking you: This existing system in elections nominates the Muslim and the disbeliever. I thought you would say no, or else you would say yes or no, you would sit and give a lecture. "The best of speech is what is brief and effective." Say yes or say no so that we discuss or do not discuss, we agree. This existing parliamentary system, after the Ummah is reformed and there is a Muslim ruler over the Ummah, and so on, proposes this system that allows the disbeliever to nominate himself like the Muslim. Say no.

The questioner : Of course not.

The Shaykh: Why are you not saying no?

The questioner: No, I am dealing with another issue.

The Shaykh: You are dealing with another issue. You are saying elections. If the ruler sees that he proposes the issue of elections, I stopped at the word. What do you mean by elections? These elections we spoke about earlier. Give the lecture. Tell me, my brother, no.

The questioner: Okay, I am hovering around this second point. You now, I understood from your words that if the Muslims rise and become the rulers, then this law will remain. Of course, this is not permissible to remain.

The Shaykh: My brother, I didn't understand. I am understanding from you now. Your word, did you not mention elections?

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh: Do I not have the right to clarify from you what type of elections you mentioned in your wording today, so that the Islamic society is reformed? Do I not have the right to ask you this question?

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh: Why do you not answer me?

The questioner: I answered, but I do not know anything in my knowledge.

The Shaykh: I will ask you. Did you say yes or did you say no?

The questioner: I said first yes, that it is the same laws, because I intend.

The Shaykh: Do not tell me same laws. Same elections?

The questioner: Same elections, of course, because.

The Shaykh: . You will tell me. For you, my brother, I do not understand from you. Same elections.

The questioner: The same, the same.

The Shaykh: Be patient with the word, because it is an explanation for your word "elections," correct?

The questioner : That is correct.

The Shaykh: We have not yet agreed on the word "elections" so that you explain it to me. So now I am understanding from you elections in which the disbeliever has the right to nominate himself and the society can elect him as a deputy in the parliament, that is, in the Shura Council. Is this what you see?

The questioner: Okay, allow me.

The Shaykh: Do not tell me "okay," my brother. May Allah guide you. I am telling you, is this what you see? Say yes or say no, then between.

The questioner: Yes, this is what I see, but it seems to me that I am thinking of something and you are thinking of something. So, if you allow me to clarify.

The Shaykh: You say about yourself that you are thinking of something. You are truthful. But you say about me, I and you are not in my mind thinking of something other than what you are thinking.

The questioner: I concluded from your words.

The Shaykh: Wrong. Now I am moving with you to other than the word "elections," and I understood from you now that you mean elections in which it is permissible for the disbeliever, the atheist, the apostate to nominate himself, and it is permissible for the individuals of the Muslims to elect him to be in the Shura Council of the Muslims.

The questioner: I do not mean to be in the Shura Council of the Muslims. I.

The Shaykh: In the parliament, my brother. The parliament in Islam. What does the parliament mean?

The questioner: I did not say in this, but this makes me say I am thinking of a point other than the point you are thinking of. I say when, meaning from the side of Islamic da'wah, it interacted with the people and the society and converted a large part of it to Islam, but the disbeliever ruler remains or the tyrant ruler remains, but this tyrant ruler held, for example, elections. We want to move to the second step. Most people have become with us. We want to make the rule with us. What do we do? That is, this point of transition. But if the rule is in our hands, of course, all these laws will find, without a doubt, this is full of violations with what we mentioned and what we did not mention, meaning many. But the point of transition, I am addressing the point of transition that we say to our brothers that now is not the time to devote yourselves to reforming the people, to spreading the da'wah, to conveying it, to educating the Muslims, to purifying Islam, and so on. So if we reach our work in this activity, for example, twenty or thirty years, and it becomes a response and change in the people, then the change of the rule. What is the way to it?

The Shaykh: The way to it is the way of the Messenger.

The questioner: Yes, the way of the Messenger, peace and blessings be upon him, was by the path of migration. So migration now is not feasible because there is no country, meaning without a ruler or without.

The Shaykh: The way of the Messenger does not start with migration, my brother. The way of the Messenger starts with education and teaching.

The questioner: He educated and taught.

The Shaykh: We also must educate and teach.

The questioner: But the Messenger, peace and blessings be upon him, after he educated and taught, moved to taking control of the rule and the lands.

The Shaykh: Yes.

The questioner: So how did he take control and how did he teach?

The Shaykh: By education and teaching.

The questioner: Not only by education and teaching.

The Shaykh: Or else, my brother, it is not just knowledge, or else I am telling you it is not by education and teaching. These two, what is the third?

The questioner: The third, as I said, was migration.

The Shaykh: My brother, migration is not necessary. Migration is according to circumstances. Migration may be obligatory and may not be obligatory. If a Muslim is in an Islamic country today, and it is the best of the Islamic countries, it is not said that he must migrate. But whoever is in a lesser country and there is that better country, it is said to him: migrate. So this migration is not a condition that it must come, but the circumstances are what impose migration. This does not need research.

The questioner: There is migration for the sake of fleeing with his religion. A person is persecuted in his religion, so he migrates in the path of Allah.

The Shaykh: There is a disagreement between me and you on the issue of migration. I am telling you, an Islamic country is the best of all countries. So whoever is in it, must he migrate?

The questioner: No.

The Shaykh: No, whoever is in a country lower than it, must he migrate?

The questioner: He must.

The Shaykh : So what is the benefit now, since we agree on the research and the details?

The questioner : The benefit is that there is another migration, a migration for the purpose of establishing a state, for example. It is that in his country there is good, but, for example, is the choice of that particular country more qualified than other countries for establishing Islamic rule there, so they migrate to it?

The Shaykh : O Abu 'Ammar, is this second country superior or inferior?

The questioner : It all has smoke, I mean.

The Shaykh : O my brother, may Allah bless you. The best of speech is what is brief and to the point. Is it superior or inferior? Say superior, say inferior, say I do not know, O my brother.

The questioner : I mean, it is less evil than the others, so it is superior.

The Shaykh : He will not answer.

The questioner : Okay, there is no superior one.

The Shaykh : I am not answering.

The questioner : We are dealing with a reality, like the current societies.

The Shaykh : O my brother, may Allah guide you. I have posited for you two countries: a superior country and an inferior country, regarding migration. Do you accept this or not?

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh : Okay, now you are coming to say there is a second migration. What is the second migration? For establishing the Muslim state. Establishing the Muslim state, do you envision it in the superior country or the inferior one?

The questioner : The superior one, of course.

The Shaykh : Okay, where is the second migration?

The questioner : It is just that the inferior one may not be oppressing the Muslims in their religion.