The ruling on Ibn al-Qayyim’s statement that the bearers of the Throne are four
Machine translationRead the Arabic original
The questioner : Egyptians, O Shaykh.
The Shaykh : May Allah command you.
The questioner : The house of Shaykh Nasir al-Din al-Albani.
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : Shaykh, I am Abu Usamah, welcome, do you remember me?
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : I had asked you two days ago.
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : I am a recent arrival.
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : What I said is not correct.
The Shaykh : Yes, indeed.
The questioner : Then I mentioned the statement and the mention in the hadith that the bearers of the Throne are eight.
The Shaykh : Yes, indeed.
The questioner : And this agrees with what was mentionedSunan Abi Dawud 2068Sahih (Al-Albani).
The Shaykh : Yes, indeed.
The questioner :[Al-Haqqah 69:17].
The Shaykh : Yes, indeed.
The questioner : And I mentioned to you the statement of Ibn al-Qayyim.
The Shaykh : That they are four.
The questioner : Yes, then I told me to beware of what Ibn al-Qayyim said, and I did so, O Shaykh.
The Shaykh : This is what you see.
The questioner : Yes, he said in *Madarij al-Salikin* in one of its chapters, he said regarding the mention of these names, after the praise and placing the praise upon their essence and what they imply, what indicates that He is praised in His generosity, praised in His lordship,
The Shaykh : My brother, we gave you the phrase, but you, we gave you the phrase that the bearers of the Throne are four
The questioner : Yes, until he said, and the bearers of the Throne are four: two say, "Subhanaka Allahumma wa bihamdika, laka al-hamdu 'ala hilmika ba'da 'ilmi," and two say, "Subhanaka Allahumma wa bihamdika, laka al-hamdu 'ala 'afwika ba'da qudratika." Then he said, "Not everyone who has power forgives, nor does everyone who forgives forgive by power, nor is everyone who knows patient, nor is everyone who is patient knowledgeable."
The Shaykh : But, my brother, but, this is his statement. Did he bring a hadith?
The questioner : He did not bring a hadith.
The Shaykh : So it is of no concern to us or him.
The questioner : But, Shaykh, what confused me is this report that he cited.
The Shaykh : My brother, I tell you, it is of no concern to us or him. He did not bring a hadith, nor did he bring a statement from a Companion. Rather, this is said to have no basis. So it is of no concern to us or him. And these are matters of the unseen, and it is not permissible to speak about them except with knowledge.
The questioner : Yes, Shaykh. If one is certain that the bearers of the Throne are eight, as Allah the Exalted mentioned in the Qur'an.
The Shaykh : This is it. There is no statement other than this. And is there any statement after the statement of Allah?
The questioner : Yes, Shaykh, yes.
The Shaykh : And this is among the wonders of Ibn al-Qayyim, and this is apparent from his old Sufism. So do not rely on this statement.
The questioner : Yes, Shaykh, and generally, what
The Shaykh : May Allah command you.
The questioner : The house of Shaykh Nasir al-Din al-Albani.
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : Shaykh, I am Abu Usamah, welcome, do you remember me?
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : I had asked you two days ago.
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : I am a recent arrival.
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : What I said is not correct.
The Shaykh : Yes, indeed.
The questioner : Then I mentioned the statement and the mention in the hadith that the bearers of the Throne are eight.
The Shaykh : Yes, indeed.
The questioner : And this agrees with what was mentioned
the Exalted in the latter verse
الله عز وجل في الآيةThe Shaykh : Yes, indeed.
The questioner :
the Throne of your Lord above them, that Day, eight [of them].
عَرْشَ رَبِّكَ فَوْقَهُمْ يَوْمَئِذٍ ثَمَانِيَةٌThe Shaykh : Yes, indeed.
The questioner : And I mentioned to you the statement of Ibn al-Qayyim.
The Shaykh : That they are four.
The questioner : Yes, then I told me to beware of what Ibn al-Qayyim said, and I did so, O Shaykh.
The Shaykh : This is what you see.
The questioner : Yes, he said in *Madarij al-Salikin* in one of its chapters, he said regarding the mention of these names, after the praise and placing the praise upon their essence and what they imply, what indicates that He is praised in His generosity, praised in His lordship,
The Shaykh : My brother, we gave you the phrase, but you, we gave you the phrase that the bearers of the Throne are four
The questioner : Yes, until he said, and the bearers of the Throne are four: two say, "Subhanaka Allahumma wa bihamdika, laka al-hamdu 'ala hilmika ba'da 'ilmi," and two say, "Subhanaka Allahumma wa bihamdika, laka al-hamdu 'ala 'afwika ba'da qudratika." Then he said, "Not everyone who has power forgives, nor does everyone who forgives forgive by power, nor is everyone who knows patient, nor is everyone who is patient knowledgeable."
The Shaykh : But, my brother, but, this is his statement. Did he bring a hadith?
The questioner : He did not bring a hadith.
The Shaykh : So it is of no concern to us or him.
The questioner : But, Shaykh, what confused me is this report that he cited.
The Shaykh : My brother, I tell you, it is of no concern to us or him. He did not bring a hadith, nor did he bring a statement from a Companion. Rather, this is said to have no basis. So it is of no concern to us or him. And these are matters of the unseen, and it is not permissible to speak about them except with knowledge.
The questioner : Yes, Shaykh. If one is certain that the bearers of the Throne are eight, as Allah the Exalted mentioned in the Qur'an.
The Shaykh : This is it. There is no statement other than this. And is there any statement after the statement of Allah?
The questioner : Yes, Shaykh, yes.
The Shaykh : And this is among the wonders of Ibn al-Qayyim, and this is apparent from his old Sufism. So do not rely on this statement.
The questioner : Yes, Shaykh, and generally, what
Source
سلسلة الهدى والنور، المجلس 1256 — d3watuna.com (8:36)
The Arabic text is a machine transcription of the audio recording.