Discussion regarding the prohibition of sitting in circles before the Friday prayer; is the intended meaning the prohibition of sitting in circles before the sermon, or is the prohibition only during the sermon?
Machine translationRead the Arabic original
The questioner : With your permission, regarding the Friday lesson!
The Shaykh: Yes.
The questioner : The text of the hadith: "He prohibited sitting in circles before the prayer," this is in "Sunan Abu Dawud" and others.
The Shaykh : Continue.
The questioner : "On the day of Friday," and the prayer is preceded by the sermon, and the action of Abu Hurayrah is outside the concept of the hadith at first glance.
The Shaykh : How?
The questioner : The Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) prohibited sitting in circles before the prayer, and the "before" here suggests the first "before," which is before the sermon; because the sermon is part of the prayer, the prayer is preceded by the sermon, the lesson is before the sermon, before the adhan, before the time of Friday enters. Does this mean that after the Fajr prayer, the time passes before night, and a week before the prayer, also according to this concept?!
The Shaykh : No, the hadith is before the Friday prayer.
The questioner : Before the prayer: "He prohibited sitting in circles before the prayer on the day of Friday."
The Shaykh : And the lesson?
The questioner : The lesson is not before the prayer, rather it is before the sermon and before the adhan.
The Shaykh : Clarify, may Allah bless you?
The questioner : Now we are delivering the sermon!
The Shaykh : Clarify what you want from the statement?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Do you want to go to the extent that the action of Abu Hurayrah is permissible because it does not contradict the hadith, or do you want to clarify and emphasize that it contradicts the hadith? What do you want?
The questioner : The first one.
The Shaykh : The first one, that is it, so if you say: Abu Hurayrah's lesson was before the sermon!
The questioner : Before the sermon.
The Shaykh : Okay, is it not before the prayer?
The questioner : Our Shaykh, what is before the prayer is the sermon, if we consider the lesson, which is before the sermon - also - to be before the prayer, then the Fajr prayer is before the prayer, a day before the prayer.
The Shaykh : You take the closest, not the farthest, may Allah bless you.
The questioner : The closest is the sermon, the closest mentioned is the sermon.
The Shaykh : How do you mean?
The questioner : Now we are praying, before the prayer we deliver the Friday sermon.
The Shaykh : Okay, the mu'adhdhin called the adhan on Friday and the teacher is teaching; is it permissible?
The questioner : This is what we are discussing!
The Shaykh : What is this?
The questioner : This is what we are discussing.
The Shaykh : It is permissible, meaning? You are researching, but you want to say: it is permissible?
The questioner : Our Shaykh, verifying the wording of the hadith.
The Shaykh : Please do not deviate.
The questioner : I am not deviating; as long as I am talking about the hadith, I have not deviated.
The Shaykh : No, I am asking you a question and you give me the answer so that we can get closer to reaching the desired goal, which is knowing the truth! If the teacher is teaching before the adhan, is it permissible in your opinion?
The questioner : If the evidence is only the hadith of Abu Hurayrah.
The Shaykh : This is also a deviation.
The questioner : No, Shaykh; because the prohibition might be from another side.
The Shaykh : May Allah reward you.
The questioner : By other evidences.
The Shaykh : May Allah bless you, the research now is on the implication of the action of Abu Hurayrah, does it contradict the hadith or not?
The questioner : Good.
The Shaykh : Other evidences are not for us now.
The questioner : Good, we agreed.
The Shaykh : So my question was that a person is teaching before Friday and before the adhan, does the mawquf hadith of Abu Hurayrah apply to him that he was teaching before the Friday adhan or not?
The questioner: The hadith of Abu Hurayrah?
The Shaykh : The mawquf, I say.
The questioner : What about it? Meaning, what does it apply to? I don't understand, Shaykh!
The Shaykh : What... .
The questioner : I am focusing my entire mind on the hadith that prohibited sitting in circles before the prayer.
The Shaykh : Focus your mind on the point; therefore you do not want to deviate from it, you may be asked question number one, number two. So I emphasize to you, I say: My brother, the hadith of Abu Hurayrah which I claimed is contradictory to the hadith of sitting in circles on Friday, if someone does it based on the athar of Abu Hurayrah, let us say athar instead of hadith, if he does it and teaches until before the Friday adhan; did he do the action of Abu Hurayrah or not?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Okay, and after the adhan?
The questioner : After the adhan, did the sermon enter?
The Shaykh : You did not answer.
The questioner : Definitely no, Abu Hurayrah cannot teach.
The Shaykh : You said before the sermon just now; meaning the prohibition is before the sermon.
The questioner : Prohibition of what?
The Shaykh : Sitting in circles.
The questioner : Sitting in circles before the prayer, our Shaykh, meaning sitting in circles during the sermon is what is prohibited.
The Shaykh : That is it, my brother, may Allah bless you, before the prayer means during the sermon.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Okay, so I say: during the adhan, is teaching permissible?
The questioner : During the adhan while he is calling, meaning?
The Shaykh : What does it mean? During the adhan, what does it mean? Think, Professor!
The questioner : It is not mentioned in the research, meaning.
The Shaykh : My brother, before the sermon, may Allah guide you, you say: the prohibited teaching is during the sermon.
The questioner : It is not teaching, it is sitting in circles, our Shaykh, the brothers who prohibit this thing or clarify it?
The Shaykh : What is meant by sitting in circles? Like a circle of silent people?
The questioner : There is no objection.
The Shaykh : No objection, and the more prohibited? Teaching, may Allah guide you.
Another questioner : He means sitting in a circle like this, meaning this is what is prohibited, perhaps you mean like this?
The questioner : This and what it leads to and what goes in its path, and proceeded...
The Shaykh : No, no, he does not want this only; therefore now if there is sitting in circles without teaching, is it prohibited, is it not?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : And sitting in circles with speech is prohibited a fortiori!
The questioner : There is no doubt.
The Shaykh : And sitting in circles with teaching?
The questioner : The entire husk.
The Shaykh : All of it is prohibited; therefore it does not mean sitting in circles alone.
The questioner : All of it with it.
The Shaykh : Therefore you restrict the hadith to before the prayer.
The questioner : That is the wording of the hadith.
The Shaykh : I understand, but I am warning you now, meaning you do not want to be literalist, "He prohibited urinating in stagnant water," this is the text, but if he urinated in a vessel and poured it from the vessel into the stagnant water, does it apply to him that he urinated in stagnant water?!
The questioner : There is no doubt.
The Shaykh: Huh?
The questioner : No doubt.
The Shaykh : How no doubt?
The questioner : No doubt that it applies to him.
The Shaykh : Why? Even though he did not urinate in the stagnant water?
The questioner : What is the intended meaning?
The Shaykh : Here is the research, what is the intended meaning? The intended meaning is he prohibited sitting in circles before the Friday prayer, is it not?! So you restrict it to he prohibited sitting in circles meaning during the sermon?
The questioner : Because the sermon is what is before the prayer.
The Shaykh : My brother, I am not asking you for the reasoning, let us proceed, why are you putting a stick in the wheel!!
The questioner : ... with a vessel or a pot and he pours it in the manner of the "before" here, the "before" means before the prayer, the sermon is what is before, the lesson is before the sermon!
The Shaykh : Why are you repeating your words?! I am coming with you, the prohibited sitting in circles, when? Define it for you.
The questioner : Before the prayer, which is the sermon.
The Shaykh : Before the prayer, say: during the sermon.
The questioner : Which is before the prayer.
The Shaykh : There is no power nor strength except with Allah!! Did you come to argue, without blame?
The questioner : No, by Allah.
The Shaykh : I am saying your words!
The questioner : ... I say: I am coming as a listener, Shaykh!
The Shaykh : I am telling you what does it mean? Define it for me, you tell me: before the prayer, the hadith is like this, be patient, the hadith is before the prayer, and the intended meaning is during what?
The questioner : The khutbah.
The Shaykh : During the sermon.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Remember this.
The questioner : I remembered it.
The Shaykh : Okay, before the sermon, is it permissible?
The questioner : It is permissible, no doubt.
The Shaykh : Before the sermon, during the adhan, is it permissible.
The questioner : During the adhan, meaning.
The Shaykh : Look now!
The questioner : Yes, during the adhan, Shaykh, there is no harm.
The Shaykh: There is nothing wrong with it.
The questioner : Unless he is occupied with repeating, it is better, we moved to another research, another text.
The Shaykh : That this "before" you, this proximity, does it not have a meaning for you in the Arabic language?
The questioner : By Allah, it has a meaning, Shaykh.
The Shaykh : How does it have a meaning?
The questioner : That he prohibited the sermon, it needs to move to another "before," there is no difference between the lesson and the Fajr prayer and Thursday.
The Shaykh : This is not the suggested meaning, may Allah guide you, this is not the suggested meaning, either you restrict it, you restrict it until it dies, or you stretch it, you stretch it...
The questioner : If it needs to die in the path of Allah, let it die, Shaykh.
The Shaykh : No, my master, this is not the intended meaning, may Allah bless you.
The questioner : May Allah reward you with good.
The Shaykh : Do not strain in understanding the hadith, first: did any of the scholars say: he prohibited sitting in circles before Friday meaning during the sermon?! Who said during the sermon?! During the sermon, enjoining good and forbidding evil is not permissible.
The questioner : This does not prevent that they were sitting in circles, no objection that they were sitting in circles and they may have spoken in the prayer.
The Shaykh: Glory be to Allah!
The questioner : And it seems to me that I remember I found them interpreting it with this thing, Shaykh.
Another questioner : In a text that comes to mind now regarding Jumu'ah: "The Companions used to face the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), sitting in circles"; meaning they used to face him (peace and blessings be upon him).
The Shaykh : They used to face him.
The questioner : They used to face him, yes, I mean it that way.
The Shaykh : Not in circles.
The questioner : So if they sat facing him, meaning they faced him; then naturally the shape would be a circle, meaning.
The Shaykh : No, but the brother, the truth is I did not like his discussion because it is purely superficial in wording, and he is cautious, and thinking about what to reply to me. This is not how scientific research is done. Among your cautions is that if there are no other proofs, well, when you come to look at the other proofs, do they help this narrow concept that you are getting tangled up in and clinging to?!
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : Excuse me, excuse me, no, no, it is not like that.
The questioner : By Allah, it is like that, O Shaykh, by Allah, that is my intention.
The Shaykh : There is no power nor strength except with Allah! I did not mean that, now, is that your intention? It is not your intention. This matter is left to Allah, but I will tell you: these other proofs that you alluded to, you must be aware of them, do they help this meaning that you are going around and around with?
The questioner: Yes, Shaykh.
The Shaykh : Do they help?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Bring them so we can see, clarify. May Allah grant you patience, O long patience.
The questioner : Be patient.
The Shaykh : More than that!
The questioner : Be very patient!
The Shaykh : Come on, in the name of Allah.
The questioner : May Allah reward you with good, O Shaykh, may Allah bless you, may Allah reward you with good.
The Shaykh : May Allah preserve you, but do not argue, may Allah bless you; do you not know what the Sunnah is on Friday when someone enters, what does he do?
The questioner : He prays the greeting of the mosque.
The Shaykh : Well, is the mosque free from the greeting of the prayer from the one entering the mosque before the preacher ascends the minbar?
The questioner : It is not free of them.
The Shaykh : Well, if there is teaching, what is the status of this teacher?
The questioner : He may disturb the...
The Shaykh : And this "may," what did you put it for?! What is this "may" for? For emphasis, is it not?
The questioner : With the present tense verb, O Shaykh.
The Shaykh : Yes, and it becomes what? It is always for emphasis, or mostly it is for doubt?
The questioner : With the past tense verb it is for emphasis, and with the present tense it is for doubt, meaning mostly.
The Shaykh : Mostly?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : ... and then you say, what do you want? To reach the truth. What do you see when you enter the mosque: is "may" for emphasis, or is it not for emphasis here? Practically, realistically, is there disturbance or not?
The questioner : By Allah, there is.
The Shaykh : It also has a "may" in it.
The questioner : One person prayed two rak'ahs!
The Shaykh: All right.
The Shaykh: Yes.
The questioner : The text of the hadith: "He prohibited sitting in circles before the prayer," this is in "Sunan Abu Dawud" and others.
The Shaykh : Continue.
The questioner : "On the day of Friday," and the prayer is preceded by the sermon, and the action of Abu Hurayrah is outside the concept of the hadith at first glance.
The Shaykh : How?
The questioner : The Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) prohibited sitting in circles before the prayer, and the "before" here suggests the first "before," which is before the sermon; because the sermon is part of the prayer, the prayer is preceded by the sermon, the lesson is before the sermon, before the adhan, before the time of Friday enters. Does this mean that after the Fajr prayer, the time passes before night, and a week before the prayer, also according to this concept?!
The Shaykh : No, the hadith is before the Friday prayer.
The questioner : Before the prayer: "He prohibited sitting in circles before the prayer on the day of Friday."
The Shaykh : And the lesson?
The questioner : The lesson is not before the prayer, rather it is before the sermon and before the adhan.
The Shaykh : Clarify, may Allah bless you?
The questioner : Now we are delivering the sermon!
The Shaykh : Clarify what you want from the statement?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Do you want to go to the extent that the action of Abu Hurayrah is permissible because it does not contradict the hadith, or do you want to clarify and emphasize that it contradicts the hadith? What do you want?
The questioner : The first one.
The Shaykh : The first one, that is it, so if you say: Abu Hurayrah's lesson was before the sermon!
The questioner : Before the sermon.
The Shaykh : Okay, is it not before the prayer?
The questioner : Our Shaykh, what is before the prayer is the sermon, if we consider the lesson, which is before the sermon - also - to be before the prayer, then the Fajr prayer is before the prayer, a day before the prayer.
The Shaykh : You take the closest, not the farthest, may Allah bless you.
The questioner : The closest is the sermon, the closest mentioned is the sermon.
The Shaykh : How do you mean?
The questioner : Now we are praying, before the prayer we deliver the Friday sermon.
The Shaykh : Okay, the mu'adhdhin called the adhan on Friday and the teacher is teaching; is it permissible?
The questioner : This is what we are discussing!
The Shaykh : What is this?
The questioner : This is what we are discussing.
The Shaykh : It is permissible, meaning? You are researching, but you want to say: it is permissible?
The questioner : Our Shaykh, verifying the wording of the hadith.
The Shaykh : Please do not deviate.
The questioner : I am not deviating; as long as I am talking about the hadith, I have not deviated.
The Shaykh : No, I am asking you a question and you give me the answer so that we can get closer to reaching the desired goal, which is knowing the truth! If the teacher is teaching before the adhan, is it permissible in your opinion?
The questioner : If the evidence is only the hadith of Abu Hurayrah.
The Shaykh : This is also a deviation.
The questioner : No, Shaykh; because the prohibition might be from another side.
The Shaykh : May Allah reward you.
The questioner : By other evidences.
The Shaykh : May Allah bless you, the research now is on the implication of the action of Abu Hurayrah, does it contradict the hadith or not?
The questioner : Good.
The Shaykh : Other evidences are not for us now.
The questioner : Good, we agreed.
The Shaykh : So my question was that a person is teaching before Friday and before the adhan, does the mawquf hadith of Abu Hurayrah apply to him that he was teaching before the Friday adhan or not?
The questioner: The hadith of Abu Hurayrah?
The Shaykh : The mawquf, I say.
The questioner : What about it? Meaning, what does it apply to? I don't understand, Shaykh!
The Shaykh : What... .
The questioner : I am focusing my entire mind on the hadith that prohibited sitting in circles before the prayer.
The Shaykh : Focus your mind on the point; therefore you do not want to deviate from it, you may be asked question number one, number two. So I emphasize to you, I say: My brother, the hadith of Abu Hurayrah which I claimed is contradictory to the hadith of sitting in circles on Friday, if someone does it based on the athar of Abu Hurayrah, let us say athar instead of hadith, if he does it and teaches until before the Friday adhan; did he do the action of Abu Hurayrah or not?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Okay, and after the adhan?
The questioner : After the adhan, did the sermon enter?
The Shaykh : You did not answer.
The questioner : Definitely no, Abu Hurayrah cannot teach.
The Shaykh : You said before the sermon just now; meaning the prohibition is before the sermon.
The questioner : Prohibition of what?
The Shaykh : Sitting in circles.
The questioner : Sitting in circles before the prayer, our Shaykh, meaning sitting in circles during the sermon is what is prohibited.
The Shaykh : That is it, my brother, may Allah bless you, before the prayer means during the sermon.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Okay, so I say: during the adhan, is teaching permissible?
The questioner : During the adhan while he is calling, meaning?
The Shaykh : What does it mean? During the adhan, what does it mean? Think, Professor!
The questioner : It is not mentioned in the research, meaning.
The Shaykh : My brother, before the sermon, may Allah guide you, you say: the prohibited teaching is during the sermon.
The questioner : It is not teaching, it is sitting in circles, our Shaykh, the brothers who prohibit this thing or clarify it?
The Shaykh : What is meant by sitting in circles? Like a circle of silent people?
The questioner : There is no objection.
The Shaykh : No objection, and the more prohibited? Teaching, may Allah guide you.
Another questioner : He means sitting in a circle like this, meaning this is what is prohibited, perhaps you mean like this?
The questioner : This and what it leads to and what goes in its path, and proceeded...
The Shaykh : No, no, he does not want this only; therefore now if there is sitting in circles without teaching, is it prohibited, is it not?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : And sitting in circles with speech is prohibited a fortiori!
The questioner : There is no doubt.
The Shaykh : And sitting in circles with teaching?
The questioner : The entire husk.
The Shaykh : All of it is prohibited; therefore it does not mean sitting in circles alone.
The questioner : All of it with it.
The Shaykh : Therefore you restrict the hadith to before the prayer.
The questioner : That is the wording of the hadith.
The Shaykh : I understand, but I am warning you now, meaning you do not want to be literalist, "He prohibited urinating in stagnant water," this is the text, but if he urinated in a vessel and poured it from the vessel into the stagnant water, does it apply to him that he urinated in stagnant water?!
The questioner : There is no doubt.
The Shaykh: Huh?
The questioner : No doubt.
The Shaykh : How no doubt?
The questioner : No doubt that it applies to him.
The Shaykh : Why? Even though he did not urinate in the stagnant water?
The questioner : What is the intended meaning?
The Shaykh : Here is the research, what is the intended meaning? The intended meaning is he prohibited sitting in circles before the Friday prayer, is it not?! So you restrict it to he prohibited sitting in circles meaning during the sermon?
The questioner : Because the sermon is what is before the prayer.
The Shaykh : My brother, I am not asking you for the reasoning, let us proceed, why are you putting a stick in the wheel!!
The questioner : ... with a vessel or a pot and he pours it in the manner of the "before" here, the "before" means before the prayer, the sermon is what is before, the lesson is before the sermon!
The Shaykh : Why are you repeating your words?! I am coming with you, the prohibited sitting in circles, when? Define it for you.
The questioner : Before the prayer, which is the sermon.
The Shaykh : Before the prayer, say: during the sermon.
The questioner : Which is before the prayer.
The Shaykh : There is no power nor strength except with Allah!! Did you come to argue, without blame?
The questioner : No, by Allah.
The Shaykh : I am saying your words!
The questioner : ... I say: I am coming as a listener, Shaykh!
The Shaykh : I am telling you what does it mean? Define it for me, you tell me: before the prayer, the hadith is like this, be patient, the hadith is before the prayer, and the intended meaning is during what?
The questioner : The khutbah.
The Shaykh : During the sermon.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Remember this.
The questioner : I remembered it.
The Shaykh : Okay, before the sermon, is it permissible?
The questioner : It is permissible, no doubt.
The Shaykh : Before the sermon, during the adhan, is it permissible.
The questioner : During the adhan, meaning.
The Shaykh : Look now!
The questioner : Yes, during the adhan, Shaykh, there is no harm.
The Shaykh: There is nothing wrong with it.
The questioner : Unless he is occupied with repeating, it is better, we moved to another research, another text.
The Shaykh : That this "before" you, this proximity, does it not have a meaning for you in the Arabic language?
The questioner : By Allah, it has a meaning, Shaykh.
The Shaykh : How does it have a meaning?
The questioner : That he prohibited the sermon, it needs to move to another "before," there is no difference between the lesson and the Fajr prayer and Thursday.
The Shaykh : This is not the suggested meaning, may Allah guide you, this is not the suggested meaning, either you restrict it, you restrict it until it dies, or you stretch it, you stretch it...
The questioner : If it needs to die in the path of Allah, let it die, Shaykh.
The Shaykh : No, my master, this is not the intended meaning, may Allah bless you.
The questioner : May Allah reward you with good.
The Shaykh : Do not strain in understanding the hadith, first: did any of the scholars say: he prohibited sitting in circles before Friday meaning during the sermon?! Who said during the sermon?! During the sermon, enjoining good and forbidding evil is not permissible.
The questioner : This does not prevent that they were sitting in circles, no objection that they were sitting in circles and they may have spoken in the prayer.
The Shaykh: Glory be to Allah!
The questioner : And it seems to me that I remember I found them interpreting it with this thing, Shaykh.
Another questioner : In a text that comes to mind now regarding Jumu'ah: "The Companions used to face the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), sitting in circles"; meaning they used to face him (peace and blessings be upon him).
The Shaykh : They used to face him.
The questioner : They used to face him, yes, I mean it that way.
The Shaykh : Not in circles.
The questioner : So if they sat facing him, meaning they faced him; then naturally the shape would be a circle, meaning.
The Shaykh : No, but the brother, the truth is I did not like his discussion because it is purely superficial in wording, and he is cautious, and thinking about what to reply to me. This is not how scientific research is done. Among your cautions is that if there are no other proofs, well, when you come to look at the other proofs, do they help this narrow concept that you are getting tangled up in and clinging to?!
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : Excuse me, excuse me, no, no, it is not like that.
The questioner : By Allah, it is like that, O Shaykh, by Allah, that is my intention.
The Shaykh : There is no power nor strength except with Allah! I did not mean that, now, is that your intention? It is not your intention. This matter is left to Allah, but I will tell you: these other proofs that you alluded to, you must be aware of them, do they help this meaning that you are going around and around with?
The questioner: Yes, Shaykh.
The Shaykh : Do they help?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Bring them so we can see, clarify. May Allah grant you patience, O long patience.
The questioner : Be patient.
The Shaykh : More than that!
The questioner : Be very patient!
The Shaykh : Come on, in the name of Allah.
The questioner : May Allah reward you with good, O Shaykh, may Allah bless you, may Allah reward you with good.
The Shaykh : May Allah preserve you, but do not argue, may Allah bless you; do you not know what the Sunnah is on Friday when someone enters, what does he do?
The questioner : He prays the greeting of the mosque.
The Shaykh : Well, is the mosque free from the greeting of the prayer from the one entering the mosque before the preacher ascends the minbar?
The questioner : It is not free of them.
The Shaykh : Well, if there is teaching, what is the status of this teacher?
The questioner : He may disturb the...
The Shaykh : And this "may," what did you put it for?! What is this "may" for? For emphasis, is it not?
The questioner : With the present tense verb, O Shaykh.
The Shaykh : Yes, and it becomes what? It is always for emphasis, or mostly it is for doubt?
The questioner : With the past tense verb it is for emphasis, and with the present tense it is for doubt, meaning mostly.
The Shaykh : Mostly?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : ... and then you say, what do you want? To reach the truth. What do you see when you enter the mosque: is "may" for emphasis, or is it not for emphasis here? Practically, realistically, is there disturbance or not?
The questioner : By Allah, there is.
The Shaykh : It also has a "may" in it.
The questioner : One person prayed two rak'ahs!
The Shaykh: All right.
Source
www.al-albany.com
The Arabic text is copied verbatim from the original source, without any edits.