The Shaykh’s discussion with some students regarding how to place the hands before and after bowing.
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The Shaykh : The established practice, not only by his action (peace and blessings be upon him), but by his action and his saying. Is there an established Sunnah from the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) regarding one of the two matters, but not both together, with regard to the second standing? This does not exist.
The questioner : All right, Shaykh, if we adopt the opinion that letting the hands hang down includes the garment and includes the hands, we say: O you who raised your hands after bowing, beware of letting them hang down, due to the generality of the first prohibition, so that the command is carried over to what is before bowing.
The Shaykh : How?
The questioner : I mean, the call now, with all due respect, Shaykh.
The Shaykh : Please go ahead.
The questioner : You are the one required, Shaykh, to provide the evidence. We say.
The Shaykh : Evidence for what?
The questioner : For proving that the Sunnah, or proving that the command for the one praying after bowing regarding the hands.
The Shaykh : No, you are not obligated to do this. This is reversing the legal argument. Let us return to the original state. If there were no hadith, let alone the hadiths, if this placement were not transmitted, would we have placed them?
The questioner : No.
The Shaykh : This is the answer regarding the same topic there. And so, as you are saying here now, if I claim that no, yes, there is a placement, you would say to me: bring the evidence. But if you say: No, there is no placement here, because there is no evidence, I am not going to say to you: give me the evidence. Because the one who affirms or the claimant is the one who needs to prove his claim, whereas the one who denies has a negative position.
The questioner : I say, Shaykh, if one adopts the view that letting the hands hang down includes the hands and includes the garment, can he not oblige the one who raised his hands after bowing to place his hands in order to avoid letting them hang down?
The Shaykh : No, no.
The questioner : And why does it not include them?
The Shaykh : Because we said, may Allah bless you: if this placement— I do not think you forgot what you said— you said just now: if we wanted to expand the implication of the prohibition of letting the hands hang down, this is based on the fact that the placement in the first standing is established.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : So if it is established, and we include letting the hands hang down here, which is contrary to the established prohibition, this is very clear. And I have depicted for you that if there were no hadith prohibiting letting the hands hang down, this letting hang down would not be permissible, because it contradicts his action and his command (peace and blessings be upon him). Did we not say this?
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : We return now to the placement that is disputed: here there is not what was found in the first placement, and therefore the hadith does not include it. Because the one who let his hands hang down after bowing in the second standing did not contradict the known Sunnah, so that it would enter it as we entered it in the first standing. The first standing has a placement, so if he let them hang down, he would have contradicted:Mishkat al-Masabih 764, correct?
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : And this is with expanding the meaning of letting the hands hang down. But in the second standing, there is no placement for us to say he contradicted the Sunnah. The original state, we agreed you and I, is that in each of the two standings, there is no placement unless it is established in the Sunnah, is that not so?
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : I repeat the topic to you in another phrase:
If we assume that there is no placement and we do not place them, as you said, and every rational person says this, and we come to the hadith:Mishkat al-Masabih 764 Does this prevent us from letting our hands hang down?
The questioner : It prevents us, Shaykh.
The Shaykh : And we do not have a Sunnah regarding the placement, I say? Do not forget!
The questioner : I say: It prevents, Shaykh. And the evidence for my statement, Shaykh, if the placement of the right hand over the left on the chest were not transmitted, we would have only one textMishkat al-Masabih 764.
The Shaykh : Yes, indeed.
The Shaykh : We say: O one who prays, do not let your hands hang down in prayer. Place them on your chest, on your navel, on your neck, below your navel, around your navel, but beware of letting them hang down.
The Shaykh : No, this is not said. This, may Allah bless you, is a prohibition not of something unknown from the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him). Do you understand how? Unknown! The Messenger prays, and we are assuming now, this Messenger who used to pray, it was not transmitted from him that he placed his hands in the first standing. How do you apply this prohibition to something unknown from the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him)? Do you understand my words?
The questioner : It was not clear, our Shaykh.
The Shaykh : No, may Allah bless you, we assumed that we do not have a hadith that the Messenger placed the right hand over the left in the first standing.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : If we said this and asked you, and you gave the correct answer, what would we do? Would we place them or let them hang down?
The questioner : If we do not have a text regarding the manner of placement, Shaykh?
The Shaykh : No, it is not about the manner of placement, it is about the original placement, may Allah bless you.
The questioner : About the original placement, Shaykh. We let them hang down, but the text came to us.
The Shaykh : Stay here, stay here now.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Why do we let them hang down?
The questioner : Based on the original state.
The Shaykh : And he?
The questioner : That the hands remain as they are.
The Shaykh : As they are.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : And what did the Messenger of Allah do based on the original state?
The questioner : He let his hands hang down.
The Shaykh : He let his hands hang down. How do you apply the prohibition to something the Messenger did?
The questioner : How do I apply the prohibition?
The Shaykh : To something the Messenger of Allah did, meaning: letting them hang down.
The questioner : Do you mean in the second standing after bowing?
The Shaykh : No, no, my brother— there is no power nor strength except by Allah! How quickly you forgot— let us assume that no hadith came regarding the placement in the first standing. Leave the second standing for now. Let us assume that no hadith came to us proving this placement. I asked you more than once and you gave the correct answer. What do we do? We let them hang down.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : All right, if a questioner asked you why you let your hands hang down?
By Allah, because the Messenger did not do that.
All right, what informed you that he did not do that? Do you have a hadith that the Messenger did not do that?
No, I do not have a hadith. And so how do you let them hang down?
Ah, if it were a placement, because this is an extra action beyond letting them hang down, it would have been transmitted, and the motives for its transmission would have been available. From this sound logic, we said: if we assume that no hadith came regarding the placement, we should let them hang down. So this letting hang down, with the detail I mentioned to you at the end, must be attributed to the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him and his family), meaning: letting them hang down, and do not say: placement. Because the placement is an extra matter beyond letting them hang down, and it requires a specific text. Is this statement correct or not?
The questioner : I understood your intention, may Allah reward you with good.
The Shaykh : And to you.
The questioner : And tomorrow, if Allah wills, its observer is near.
The Shaykh : Hehe.
The questioner : May Allah preserve you.
The Shaykh : Welcome.
The questioner : Shaykh, and if they return, we return to the question.
The Shaykh : But agree with him that he will return, so that you will return, hehe.
The questioner : All right, Shaykh, if we adopt the opinion that letting the hands hang down includes the garment and includes the hands, we say: O you who raised your hands after bowing, beware of letting them hang down, due to the generality of the first prohibition, so that the command is carried over to what is before bowing.
The Shaykh : How?
The questioner : I mean, the call now, with all due respect, Shaykh.
The Shaykh : Please go ahead.
The questioner : You are the one required, Shaykh, to provide the evidence. We say.
The Shaykh : Evidence for what?
The questioner : For proving that the Sunnah, or proving that the command for the one praying after bowing regarding the hands.
The Shaykh : No, you are not obligated to do this. This is reversing the legal argument. Let us return to the original state. If there were no hadith, let alone the hadiths
That the Messenger (peace be upon him), when he entered into prayer, raised his hands and said the takbir, then placed the right hand over the left.
بأن الرسول عليه السلام كان إذا دخل في الصلاة رفع يديه وكبَّر ثم وضع اليمنى على اليسرىThe questioner : No.
The Shaykh : This is the answer regarding the same topic there. And so, as you are saying here now, if I claim that no, yes, there is a placement, you would say to me: bring the evidence. But if you say: No, there is no placement here, because there is no evidence, I am not going to say to you: give me the evidence. Because the one who affirms or the claimant is the one who needs to prove his claim, whereas the one who denies has a negative position.
The questioner : I say, Shaykh, if one adopts the view that letting the hands hang down includes the hands and includes the garment, can he not oblige the one who raised his hands after bowing to place his hands in order to avoid letting them hang down?
The Shaykh : No, no.
The questioner : And why does it not include them?
The Shaykh : Because we said, may Allah bless you: if this placement— I do not think you forgot what you said— you said just now: if we wanted to expand the implication of the prohibition of letting the hands hang down, this is based on the fact that the placement in the first standing is established.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : So if it is established, and we include letting the hands hang down here, which is contrary to the established prohibition, this is very clear. And I have depicted for you that if there were no hadith prohibiting letting the hands hang down, this letting hang down would not be permissible, because it contradicts his action and his command (peace and blessings be upon him). Did we not say this?
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : We return now to the placement that is disputed: here there is not what was found in the first placement, and therefore the hadith does not include it. Because the one who let his hands hang down after bowing in the second standing did not contradict the known Sunnah, so that it would enter it as we entered it in the first standing. The first standing has a placement, so if he let them hang down, he would have contradicted:
forbade trailing garments during prayer
نهى عن السدل في الصلاةThe questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : And this is with expanding the meaning of letting the hands hang down. But in the second standing, there is no placement for us to say he contradicted the Sunnah. The original state, we agreed you and I, is that in each of the two standings, there is no placement unless it is established in the Sunnah, is that not so?
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : I repeat the topic to you in another phrase:
If we assume that there is no placement and we do not place them, as you said, and every rational person says this, and we come to the hadith:
forbade trailing garments during prayer
نهى عن السدل في الصلاةThe questioner : It prevents us, Shaykh.
The Shaykh : And we do not have a Sunnah regarding the placement, I say? Do not forget!
The questioner : I say: It prevents, Shaykh. And the evidence for my statement, Shaykh, if the placement of the right hand over the left on the chest were not transmitted, we would have only one text
forbade trailing garments during prayer
نهى عن السدل في الصلاةThe Shaykh : Yes, indeed.
The Shaykh : We say: O one who prays, do not let your hands hang down in prayer. Place them on your chest, on your navel, on your neck, below your navel, around your navel, but beware of letting them hang down.
The Shaykh : No, this is not said. This, may Allah bless you, is a prohibition not of something unknown from the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him). Do you understand how? Unknown! The Messenger prays, and we are assuming now, this Messenger who used to pray, it was not transmitted from him that he placed his hands in the first standing. How do you apply this prohibition to something unknown from the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him)? Do you understand my words?
The questioner : It was not clear, our Shaykh.
The Shaykh : No, may Allah bless you, we assumed that we do not have a hadith that the Messenger placed the right hand over the left in the first standing.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : If we said this and asked you, and you gave the correct answer, what would we do? Would we place them or let them hang down?
The questioner : If we do not have a text regarding the manner of placement, Shaykh?
The Shaykh : No, it is not about the manner of placement, it is about the original placement, may Allah bless you.
The questioner : About the original placement, Shaykh. We let them hang down, but the text came to us.
The Shaykh : Stay here, stay here now.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Why do we let them hang down?
The questioner : Based on the original state.
The Shaykh : And he?
The questioner : That the hands remain as they are.
The Shaykh : As they are.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : And what did the Messenger of Allah do based on the original state?
The questioner : He let his hands hang down.
The Shaykh : He let his hands hang down. How do you apply the prohibition to something the Messenger did?
The questioner : How do I apply the prohibition?
The Shaykh : To something the Messenger of Allah did, meaning: letting them hang down.
The questioner : Do you mean in the second standing after bowing?
The Shaykh : No, no, my brother— there is no power nor strength except by Allah! How quickly you forgot— let us assume that no hadith came regarding the placement in the first standing. Leave the second standing for now. Let us assume that no hadith came to us proving this placement. I asked you more than once and you gave the correct answer. What do we do? We let them hang down.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : All right, if a questioner asked you why you let your hands hang down?
By Allah, because the Messenger did not do that.
All right, what informed you that he did not do that? Do you have a hadith that the Messenger did not do that?
No, I do not have a hadith. And so how do you let them hang down?
Ah, if it were a placement, because this is an extra action beyond letting them hang down, it would have been transmitted, and the motives for its transmission would have been available. From this sound logic, we said: if we assume that no hadith came regarding the placement, we should let them hang down. So this letting hang down, with the detail I mentioned to you at the end, must be attributed to the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him and his family), meaning: letting them hang down, and do not say: placement. Because the placement is an extra matter beyond letting them hang down, and it requires a specific text. Is this statement correct or not?
The questioner : I understood your intention, may Allah reward you with good.
The Shaykh : And to you.
The questioner : And tomorrow, if Allah wills, its observer is near.
The Shaykh : Hehe.
The questioner : May Allah preserve you.
The Shaykh : Welcome.
The questioner : Shaykh, and if they return, we return to the question.
The Shaykh : But agree with him that he will return, so that you will return, hehe.