The issue of placing the hands, letting the hands hang down after rising from the bowing.

The questioner: O Shaykh, I asked you and I burdened you, so ... .

The Shaykh: Go ahead.

The questioner: Is the last question ... .

The Shaykh : ... .

The questioner: Of course, regarding the disagreement I mentioned from three years ago, of course my question ... - may Allah reward you with good - .

The Shaykh : And beware of that.

The questioner: I think that ... the brother remembers it, I met you during Hajj three years ago, regarding the issue that the one who walks upon it ... and did not ... the minimum threshold to restore it as it was, and you said a good word that returned me ... al-Shafi'i and the hadith is a proof in itself and does not need ... .

The Shaykh: Perfect.

The questioner: Fine; this ... until I remember.

The Shaykh: Go ahead.

The questioner: I asked you an oral question with one of the brothers who came to you with ... .

The Shaykh: Approximately when?

The questioner: Five years ago.

The Shaykh: Five years ago.

The questioner: This question.

The Shaykh: Go ahead.

The questioner: The issue of placing the hands, or your opinion that the hands, I mean, are let down after the bowing.

The Shaykh: Yes.

The questioner: You argue - may Allah keep you safe - with the saying of the Companion - may Allah be pleased with him - among the evidence, then he raised until.

The Shaykh: Since you ... do you not want to sit down.

The questioner: I was happy.

The Shaykh: But I am tired.

The questioner: You mentioned - may Allah keep you safe - among the evidence that the expression of the Companion - may Allah be pleased with him - : "until every limb returned to its place" implies that he lets his hands hang down, he said to youThe questioner: In the same book of yours, "The Description of Prayer," on the page after that: "So when he prostrated, he returned until every limb returned to its place." I mean - I seek refuge in Allah from the word "I" - but I mean, the connection between letting the hands hang down and the narrator's expression has no basis of indication. If one were to adhere to the apparent research, he would say that according to your saying, this is only the second opinion; "So he prostrated, then he straightened until every limb returned to its place" to extend his legs; I mean, it is not implied by the narrator's saying: "until every limb returned to its place" that he let his hands hang down. So placing the hands on the chest is not the narrator's expression, and the context of the narrator's expression in prostration, so I said to the questioner: I do not think this question is from you. Just.

The Shaykh: Fine; Allah knows best if this transmission is precise, but what is mentioned in "The Description of Prayer," and it has been mentioned for about twenty years, what is mentioned there?

The questioner: I only want, O Shaykh, I mean, to compel you to let the hands hang down by this saying of the Companion.

The Shaykh: No, no, do not compel me with this; because this is not written down, it is not written down, so that is why I said to you: what is written down in "The Description of Prayer"?

The questioner: This thing was not transmitted, among what I said.

The Shaykh: Fine; if this is sufficient, then we do not need that.

The questioner: I mean, the point, O Shaykh, I mean, the issue of the Companion's saying, does it not serve as a proof for your research to support your saying?

The Shaykh : And what is it?

The questioner: And it is the saying of the Companion: "until every limb returned to its place"; I mean, do we exclude this from proving the letting down of the hands after the bowing, or does it remain?

The Shaykh: No, its apparent meaning is so, I mean, by relying on the fact that it was not reported that the Prophet - peace and blessings be upon him - placed his hands after he raised his head from the bowing, so when he raises his head from the bowing until every limb returns to its station or its place, by combining the two matters, it becomes suitable for argumentation.

The questioner: Fine, O Shaykh, you said earlier: if the command and the action conflict, the command is given precedence. Yes.

The Shaykh: Yes, and I still say so.

The questioner: The hadith came: "He forbade letting down in prayer," the prohibition is absolute verbal.

The Shaykh: No, it is not absolute.

The questioner: What restricted it?

The Shaykh: Who interpreted it as letting down the hands? Either it is letting down the hands, or it is letting down the garment, and all the scholars are agreed that he - peace be upon him - intended letting down the garment, this is first. Second: if we wanted to expand the meaning - and this is not apparent - then the intended meaning is the letting down that contradicts the Sunnah, so the Sunnah is placing the hands, indeed it is commanded as it came in "Sahih al-Bukhari," so when that is the case, if there were no prohibition against letting down - either specifically regarding letting down the hands or generally by the wording as you want to argue with it - if this prohibition were not absolute, it would suffice that the one who lets down his hands as the Maliki school does, they contradict his command - peace be upon him - and his action, so we do not need to prove that this letting down in the first standing, which is not a point of disagreement among the people of the Sunnah; that we need a hadith that forbids this letting down; because his action - peace be upon him - and his command regarding placing the right hand over the left in prayer serve in place of the prohibition against letting down, so we do not lose anything if we interpret the hadith with the meaning that the scholars held, that the intended meaning here is the prohibition against letting down the garment, so if we assume ... by his action - peace be upon him -, indeed by his action and his saying; is there a established Sunnah from the Prophet - peace and blessings be upon him - by one of the two matters and not both together regarding the second standing? This does not exist.

The questioner: Fine, O Shaykh, if we take the saying of the one who says ... the garment includes the hand, we say: O you who raised after the bowing, beware of letting down due to the generality of the first prohibition, you understand the command before the bowing.

The Shaykh : ... .

The questioner: I mean, the call now - I mean, with my respect, O Shaykh - you are the one required to provide the proof, we say ... .

The Shaykh: Proof of what?

The questioner: Of proving that the Sunnah, or proving that the command is that the one praying after the bowing ... .

The Shaykh: No, you are not obligated to this, this is reversing the legal argument, let us return to the original; if there were no hadith - let alone hadiths - that the Messenger - peace be upon him - when he entered prayer raised his hands and said the takbir, then placed the right hand over the left; if this placement were not transmitted, would we have placed them?

The questioner : No.

The Shaykh: This is the answer to the same topic there, and so as you say here now: if I claim that no, there is a placement, you say to me: bring the proof, whereas if you say: no, there is no placement here; because there is no proof; I do not say to you: give me the proof; because the one who affirms or claims is the one who needs to prove his claim, whereas the one who denies, their position is negative.

The questioner: I say, O Shaykh, whoever takes that letting down includes the hand; the hands include the garment, can he not compel the one who raised after the bowing to place his hands to avoid letting down?

The Shaykh: No, no.

The questioner: And why not, O Shaykh?

The Shaykh: Because we said - may Allah bless you - if this placement, I do not think you forgot what you said, you said earlier if we wanted to expand the indication of the prohibition against letting down, this is based on the fact that the placement in the first standing is established, so if it is established and we include letting down here, which is contrary to the established in the prohibition, this is very clear, and I showed you that if there were no hadith about letting down; then this letting down is not permissible; because it contradicts his action and his command - peace be upon him - did we not say this?

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh: We return now to the placement that is disputed, here there is not what was found in the first chapter; and so it is not included in the hadith, because the one who let down after the bowing in the second standing did not contradict the known Sunnah, he introduced it as we introduced it in the first standing, the first standing has a placement, so if he lets down, what does it become? He contradicted the prohibition against letting down in prayer; correct?

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh: And this is with expanding the meaning of letting down, but in the second standing there is no placement for us to say he contradicted the Sunnah, the original, we agreed ... that in both standings there is no placement unless it is established in the Sunnah; is that not so?

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh: I repeat the topic to you in another phrase; if we assume that there is no placement, and we do not place as you said, and every rational person says this, and we come to the hadith that forbids letting down in prayer; does this prevent us from letting down our hands?

The questioner: It prevents us.

The Shaykh: And we do not have a Sunnah? In the placement we say! Do not forget.

The questioner: I say it prevents, O Shaykh, and the proof of my saying: if the placing of the right hand over the left on the chest were not reported, we would have only one text; "He forbade letting down in prayer," we say: O one praying, do not let down in prayer; so place them on your chest, on your navel, on your neck, below your navel or around your navel, but beware of letting down.

The Shaykh : No, this is not said. This—may Allah bless you—is a prohibition regarding something not established from the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him). Do you understand? Not established. The Messenger prays, and we are now assuming that this Messenger who used to pray is not reported to have placed his hands in the first standing. How do you apply this prohibition to something not established from the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him)? Do you understand my point?

The questioner : No... O Shaykh.

The Shaykh : No—may Allah bless you—let us assume that we do not have a hadith that the Messenger placed his right hand over his left in the first standing. If we say this, and you asked me and I gave the correct answer; what would we do? Would we place them or let them hang?

The questioner : If we do not have a text regarding the manner of placement, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh : No, not regarding the manner of placement, but regarding the placement itself—may Allah bless you.

The questioner : Regarding the placement itself, O Shaykh, we let them hang, but the text came to us.

The Shaykh : Stay here for a moment. How do we let them hang?

The questioner : According to the original state.

The Shaykh : And what is it?

The questioner : That the hands remain as they are.

The Shaykh : As they are.

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : And what did the Messenger of Allah do based on this original state?

The questioner : He let his hands hang.

The Shaykh : He let his hands hang. How do you apply the prohibition to something the Messenger did?

The questioner : How do I apply the prohibition?

The Shaykh : To something the Messenger of Allah did; that is, letting them hang?

The questioner : Do you mean the second standing after bowing?

The Shaykh : No, no... There is no power or strength except with Allah. I am not asking about what you forgot. Let us assume that no hadith came regarding the placement in the first standing. Leave the second standing for now; let us assume that no hadith came to us affirming this placement. I have asked you more than once and you gave the correct answer? What do we do? We let them hang.

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : Good; if someone asked you: Why did you let your hands hang? I would say, by Allah, because the Messenger did not do that. Good; what makes you know that he did not do that? Do you have a hadith that the Messenger did not do that? No, I do not have a hadith. So how do you let them hang? Ah, if the placement was an addition to letting them hang, it would have been transmitted, and the motivations for transmitting it would have been present. From this sound logic, we said: if we assume that no hadith came regarding the placement, we should let them hang. So this letting them hang, with the detail I mentioned to you, must ultimately be attributed to the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him); that is, letting them hang, and you do not say: placement; because placement is an addition to letting them hang that requires a specific text. Is this correct or not?

The questioner : I understood your point. May Allah reward you with good.

The Shaykh : And beware of that.