The questioner’s insistence on limiting people to two ranks: scholar and follower

The questioner : I see that I have read in this chapter what indicates that after mentioning the issue of following, like al-Dahlawi, for example, in *Hujjat Allah al-Balighah*, he explains and says in this chapter, for example, like Ibn al-Qayyim’s book *Adab al-Fatwa*, he divided *Adab al-Fatwa*, his book *I’lam al-Muwaqqin*, he says: that this follower, if he takes in all the evidence in this issue only... the rank of the mujtahids, and if he does not know the complete evidence in this issue, he remains in the rank of the followers; at that point, giving this name does not grant a complete rank, but it is either the first, which is ijtihad, or the second, which is taqlid, and he remains a follower, and some of the simple evidence, we, some of the simple evidence...
We, as simple students of knowledge, studied under some of the people of knowledge... the book *Asbab al-Hidayah*, or the book *al-Ikhtiyar*, how is its author described, and he is from the class of followers who is capable of distinguishing between the weak and the strong, and the stronger and the weaker position? And why... for example, why was it not taken... if the attribute was known... from the class of followers... even though... according to... the class of followers, so we see that the people of knowledge did not transmit to us... his name remained follower, and he remained in the rank of taqlid. And there is no doubt that there is a benefit, even though the disagreement is verbal, there remains a benefit; that there remains a known limit, where is this layman’s position? And where is this scholar’s position? So that those who are not qualified do not encroach upon the rank of knowledge, and those who are not qualified do not encroach upon the rank of ijtihad; so that people do not fall into what that Companion afflicted with janabah fell into, and he was afflicted with death as a result of a ignorant person’s fatwa.
Therefore, it was necessary to define that this is a layman follower, this is a scholar mujtahid; so that people do not fall into a middle rank, the middling of the students, who may claim that they have reached ijtihad, and they kill and destroy.
Please proceed.

The Shaykh : This addition is a detail that matches reality and creates the danger that every Muslim fears; meaning, if there remained two ranks without a technical term and reality has three ranks, and we looked away from the middle rank, and we did not express it as following, and the rank of ijtihad remained and the rank of taqlid remained, does restricting ourselves only to this technical term save us from the danger we indicated in the hadith and I reminded you of again? Knowing that we work, as you know, that this technical term—that is, the middle rank—is not in the minds of the Islamic world today except for a very few individuals from the people of knowledge, and yet the danger you fear is a reality, despite the absence of this rank in the minds of the masses of Muslims, the danger you fear is a reality.

The questioner : ... .

The Shaykh : So the reason is that they did not follow the ruling that says: "Whoever knows himself has known his Lord," the reason is that people were afflicted with arrogance, they were afflicted with self-admiration; and therefore you find strange and odd fatwas issued by those who are said to be from the scholars, and they perhaps, in the scale of the people of knowledge, do not deserve to be among the students of scholars.

The questioner : You are correct.

The Shaykh : So—may Allah bless you—the danger you fear was not a result of this middle rank that we call following; because first, this rank is not saturated in the mind of the Islamic world, and yet the danger is a reality, so you...

The questioner : Regions and regions, professor.

The Shaykh : Allow me a moment, it was not mentioned, this is a secondary aspect, regions, we do not want to count the countries anymore, which region? Our region or in... or Egypt.

The questioner : ... .

The Shaykh : Allow me a moment, this is not our research now; so this danger you fear is not the reason that some scholars used the expression of following for a rank that is above pure taqlid and below ijtihad, this danger came from the corruption of souls and the corruption of hearts, this is one. The other: you indicated that Ibn al-Qayyim seems to have attached the follower of the mujtahid.

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : I do not believe this, and I hope for two things: the first: that you and I review the words of Ibn al-Qayyim, and the second hope is that we have a second meeting, a second meeting for just that.

The questioner : ... .

The Shaykh : ... but, no, because the issue is very important, because.

The questioner : Reviewing the text.

The Shaykh : But, or... when we agreed.

The questioner : Rebuke whom?

The Shaykh : That the follower plus zero is less than the follower plus knowledge of hadith.

The questioner : And he remains a follower.

The Shaykh : Please. I do not care about this whole technical term, what concerns me is this truth that every rational person and every student of knowledge admits; that the follower plus zero is less than the follower plus hadith, and a follower plus hadith is better than a follower plus zero, you still call these two followers, may Allah bless you with that naming, I call the follower who has knowledge of hadith a follower too, may Allah bless me with the same; because ; because there is no danger there at all.

The questioner : There is no danger.

The Shaykh : Because the danger you depicted earlier and said that even a person does not encroach upon a rank that is not... this—my professor—is not from this naming, and is not from this technical term, just as it is not from the technical term that there are mujtahid scholars and there are followers, but rather it came from the fleeing and retreating of Muslims themselves and their exceeding their limits and their knowledge, so we fell into this which every Muslim complains about.

The questioner : You are right, but my master, from the aspect that the reason for that arrogance; I agree with you, it is a reason but not the whole reason, likewise—for example—in the regions where it is frequently said that we must take directly from the Book and the Sunnah, we find many of these people, but in the regions that follow the madhhab, preserving what our Ummah has been upon throughout the ages, we do not find this disease widespread, we may find it in an ignorant illiterate person, but our problem is we do not find it except among people who sit with people of knowledge, and it is placed in their minds that you must take directly from the Book and the Sunnah... this disease has spread in this country... I say this out of sensitivity to reality.

The Shaykh : Allow me to tell you, your saying: it is placed in their minds; this is not correct, and I mentioned this at the beginning of the speech, what is placed in their minds in another brief is what follows: it is obligatory for every Muslim to follow the Book and the Sunnah, and each according to his level; whoever is a scholar in the highest rank, he takes from the Book and the Sunnah, and taqlid is forbidden for him, and this is the text of the scholars, whoever is below that from the ranks, and they are many as I hinted earlier, we come to this illiterate man who does not read or write, but he understands the meaning of a hadith in the Arabic language, he acts upon it and he has known that some of the imams acted upon it; this is what we are.

The questioner : Following that imam.

The Shaykh : ... no, no.

The questioner : ... .

The Shaykh : ... my professor, we do not forget the point we are commenting on now; there is no one who teaches and there is no one who is taught that it is necessary for every person to take the legal ruling directly from the Book and the Sunnah as you said and quoted, I tell you with complete frankness: this is not permissible for a Muslim to attribute this to a Muslim; because this is contrary to reality, and this.

The questioner : It is the very reality.

The Shaykh : Yes?

The questioner : Please, my master.

The Shaykh : Allow me.

The questioner : My master, please.

The Shaykh : What is this reality—may Allah bless you?

The questioner : We do not grasp it from reality.

The Shaykh : No, no, please, in brief, I told you two brief words; I say: there is no one who teaches.

The questioner : Praise be to Allah.

The Shaykh : If you allow; praise be to Allah after completing the phrase, and... the phrase if it became clear to you.

The questioner : You said it and you want...

The Shaykh : Please, please.

The questioner: Go ahead.

The Shaykh : There is no one who teaches and there is no one who is taught this which you attribute and this which you quote.

The questioner : Praise be to Allah, we seek forgiveness from Allah and repent to Him.

The Shaykh : Allow me, I have another point in response to your previous statement. You said that in a region or town, or whatever, one hears such talk, meaning that as soon as a hadith is authentic, it is acted upon, even if the person is not qualified to act upon it, because he neither understood it nor supported it with the understanding of those who came before him, do you see? I say: This may possibly exist, and what is forbidden about it if the original claim is correct? It is like saying: A man exerts independent legal reasoning, leave the general public aside; he exerts independent legal reasoning but is not qualified for it, and he looks at fatwas and permits riba (usury or interest) and the like of prohibitions, and so on; so what do we do? Do we say: There is no independent legal reasoning in the world?! There is independent legal reasoning and it has its qualified people, but if those who are not qualified claim qualification, what do we do for them? We advise them and remind them.

The questioner : May Allah reward you with good.

The Shaykh : In contrast to this, we say that in other societies where there is not this discernment that we call for and have placed as a rank between two ranks; in those atmospheres, there is no mention of this discernment at all. The Shaykh said so, and the matter is finished!! The proof is that a man who has spent half his life in the Book and the Sunnah and in studying the opinions of the Imams and their independent legal reasoning, and so on, adopts from that a position that is closest to the Book and the Sunnah in his understanding, comes to a layman and says to him: Allah said so, the Messenger of Allah said so; and then we hear what is at least verbal disbelief, and you understand what I mean by verbal disbelief, meaning that his heart is not judged, but this word is not permissible to be said, and he says: No, my Shaykh... my Shaykh says so.
The questioner : Now, this is an evil that results from not calling to what Allah (Mighty and Majestic) said in His Noble Book: , so it is not only the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) who is commanded to be discerning in his religion, and he is undoubtedly discerning to a hundred million percent, but the intended meaning of this verse, as I understand it, is not the Messenger; because the Messenger is known for discernment, but rather the followers, .
The questioner : So we believe that discernment does not consist of stopping at the first point, which is following a scholar without knowing his evidence without a hadith without proof, but rather discernment is an added proof, a hadith of the Messenger (peace be upon him), plus a Qur'anic verse; this is what we want, and we do not find in that society where many of its individuals are taught, on occasion or not, "Allah said, the Messenger of Allah said," they say to you: We have not heard this from the Shaykh, or so-and-so Shaykh said the opposite... that some of the callers to following the Book and the Sunnah, and I am certainly proud to be among them - and there is no pride from the Islamic perspective - we come to matters that are not contrary to the school of jurisprudence; so what is the position of the majority? Turning away from them, what is the argument? We have not heard that from our Shuyukh, from our teachers, where did this come from? It is from neglecting the consideration of this middle rank, whether we agree to call it following or not, that is not what concerns us at all; because we agreed that this rank, regardless of the name, is better than the lower rank of following a scholar without knowing his evidence without listening to the text from the Book and the Sunnah; so this has a great prohibition, I say to him - for example - : The Sunnah is so in prayer or in the row or something similar; his inner state, and sometimes he may even say with his tongue: ; is this how following is done? No, this is rigidity in following a scholar without knowing his evidence.

The questioner : This point... if you allow me.

The Shaykh: Go ahead.