What is the ruling on buying a salary, where the Social Provisions Agency deducts a fixed monthly installment from the employee's salary until retirement age?
Machine translationRead the Arabic original
The questioner : In a second matter now, meaning, we are looking into... it is the matter of what is called buying the salary.
The Shaykh: Yes.
The questioner : ... We have an institution called the Social Insurance Institution for retirees. As long as you are an employee of the state, it deducts a fixed amount from your salary, ten or fifteen dinars, and it invests it. Every month it deducts from you until you reach retirement age. If you reach retirement age, it begins to spend on you, giving you a salary from the date you reach retirement age without you working; of course, you stay at home and it gives it to you. Is it permissible? It granted, meaning, the materials it has, that it is permissible for one who has reached retirement age to—for example—sell, if he is entitled to it after retirement age, let us suppose it is three hundred dinars. I can sell it for one dinar against twenty dinars or two hundred dinars. For every dinar I waive from the salary, they give me cash now, two hundred dinars for this. Is this permissible?
The Shaykh : Excuse me, you assumed that three hundred dinars were saved for him?
The questioner : We do not know how it is; it invests it.
The Shaykh : ... You mentioned two thousand dinars.
The questioner : Ah, no, no, his salary after reaching retirement age is three hundred dinars, they spend on him...
The Shaykh : His salary?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh: Good.
The questioner : So it is his right, every person who has reached retirement age, to waive one or two dinars.
The Shaykh : Wait for me, so his salary as a retiree is three hundred dinars, for example.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : ... for example.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Okay, is this a state operation or a company?
The questioner : No, this is a state institution, attached to the state.
The Shaykh : State.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Okay, the state.
Another questioner : ... His salary—Shaykh—would be five hundred dinars, for example. If at retirement age the amount... on paper... he sells part of the salary, fifty dinars, for example. They give him only two hundred and fifty dinars, and he sells fifty dinars, they give you... dinars, and it comes out to fifteen thousand dinars for you. They did this on the basis that the poor employee benefits or something. This amount can be traded in; he can trade and do something, meaning, and thus he is not dependent on Allah, then on this salary. This is their intention.
The Shaykh : I am still slow in understanding this financial matter; you need to be patient with me until I understand it.
--
The Shaykh : Stop, stop, did you stop? ...
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : Repeat the question for me? The one recorded, repeat it on the tape.
The questioner : It is recorded, Shaykh.
The Shaykh : I know, I want to hear it so we can stop and start with the answer.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Or we record this transcription that we just wrote.
The questioner : ... .
[Replay from the recorded tape]: They give him only two hundred and fifty dinars, and he sells fifty dinars, they give you... dinars, and it comes out to fifteen thousand dinars for you. They did this on the basis that the poor employee benefits or something. This amount can be traded in; he can trade and do something, meaning, and thus he is not dependent on Allah, then on this salary. This is their intention.
The Shaykh : I am still slow in understanding this financial matter; you need to be patient with me until I understand it.
The Shaykh : Stop, stop, did you stop?
--
The questioner : This is from the beginning.
...
Another questioner : The questioner: The question, Shaykh, is that there is an employee working in the state, and he receives a salary during his work, and a fixed amount is deducted from this salary. This amount is invested by the Social Insurance Institution, which is one of the state's institutions. So when the man dies after reaching retirement age, the government spends on him a salary that may be less than his previous salary.
The Shaykh: Yes.
The questioner : And this salary continues to be paid to him, and it is the man's right to sell one dinar of his salary for two hundred dinars, which he receives in cash. For example, if his salary is three hundred dinars, he waives one dinar.
The Shaykh : Three hundred dinars in what situation?
The questioner : Retirement.
The Shaykh : Retirement, okay.
The questioner : So he waives two dinars, so his salary becomes two hundred and ninety-eight dinars, and he takes for the two dinars he waived, for every dinar two hundred dinars, so he takes four hundred dinars in cash.
The Shaykh : From whom?
The questioner : From the government, from this institution.
The Shaykh : Meaning, if he waives it to the government?
The questioner : Yes, for one dinar.
The Shaykh : For two dinars out of the three hundred.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : He takes four hundred for the two dinars.
The questioner : Yes; is this permissible?
The Shaykh : Okay, is this specific to the state, or can another person outside the state do it?
The questioner : Even if it is another person, as long as he is committed to paying an installment to the government. Even a merchant can do this matter. Even a private merchant who owns a shop.
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : He agrees with the institution that he will pay it a monthly installment.
Another questioner : ... Even the merchant.
The questioner : Yes, even the merchant now, every employee, everyone on the face of the earth in Kuwait can... if he is a Kuwaiti; even if he is a merchant working in a private shop, he waives an installment such that when he reaches retirement age, the government spends on him.
The Shaykh : Is this waiver done in the case of his retirement, or before his retirement?
The questioner : No, if he is not an employee, a merchant.
The Shaykh : Employee, employee. The employee who has this retirement waives...
The questioner : Two dinars.
The Shaykh : Two dinars.
The questioner : After.
The Shaykh : In the case of his retirement.
The questioner : In the case of his retirement, yes.
The Shaykh : Yes, okay. Before answering this question, the thing is unreasonable, but the explanation is, as they say: "When the cause appears, the wonder ceases." How does the state pay four hundred dinars for two dinars? What is the reason for that?
The questioner : The reason for that is that the government may take into consideration that this man may die, if he does not, let us suppose he has no descendants.
The Shaykh : No, suppose he has descendants.
The questioner : Let us suppose he has descendants.
The Shaykh: Yes.
The questioner : Because this man, Allah may decree that he dies one or two months after retirement, and people's salaries decrease by a large percentage, even if he has descendants.
The Shaykh : A large percentage? You said just now a small percentage.
The questioner : No, in his death, in the case of his death.
The Shaykh : But, may Allah bless you.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : And I gave the example that the man died one day after his retirement.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : You said: his retirement salary transferred to his wife.
The questioner : It is not...
The Shaykh : I told you. Do not rush me, I told you: is it the same? I said: No, less than that. Now, what is the percentage of the reduction?
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : We must know.
The questioner : It may reach half the amount.
The Shaykh : Half the amount.
The questioner : Half the amount.
The Shaykh : Okay; and if the wife dies; does the second half transfer to the heirs or does it decrease?
The questioner : No, it is not, Shaykh, meaning...
The Shaykh : ... Because, you...
The questioner : It is estimated that each son—for example—gets twenty dinars, if he is not a working employee. If he is an employee, he has no right to this salary of his father. Or his wife is married, she has no right to the salary...
The Shaykh : Okay; let us suppose the wife who inherited half the salary, okay? She died and left children, all of them are employees, all of them are employees.
The questioner : The salary is cut off.
The Shaykh : Ah, so who does the salary remain for? The state?
The questioner : The state, yes, the state takes it.
The Shaykh : It is all a matter of gambling in gambling, so it is not permissible. Now we return to ask: the state buys the two dinars for four hundred dinars; why? Why did you say?
The questioner : For one of the reasons, to help this employee who left the job to invest in this amount which we said reaches fifteen dinars.
The Shaykh : Help by giving him a retirement salary, it is for help.
The questioner : There is no salary, there is...
The Shaykh : It is because it is going; I say: this salary is going, this is help for him.
The questioner : This is assistance, but... it is not sufficient for him—for example, especially in a country like Kuwait where there is high inflation. They want to invest... the state also benefits; because the return will go back to the state. The fifteen thousand will be returned to them, so they want us to... of course, he will receive his salary, but it is insufficient. They set it at three hundred dinars, which will be approximately two hundred and fifty dinars. The fifty dinars were used to buy what he—for example—the fifteen thousand dinars he worked for in the market.
Another questioner : ... submitted later.
The questioner : And then, in a case that may be similar to this: they give government houses to Kuwaitis—for example—and if the husband dies, his installment is waived. Of course, they give them on installments, so his installment is waived. So the objective, we can say, is that the state’s main concern is...
The Shaykh : ... earning.
The questioner : ... earning, but they assist him...
The Shaykh : It invalidates it—may Allah reward you—the other scenarios.
The questioner: Yes, Shaykh.
The Shaykh : It invalidates it, the other scenario: when the husband died, half of his salary transferred to his wife. When the wife died, this half transferred to the husband’s children if they were not employed.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : If they were employed, the salary—half the salary—transferred to the state. And why do they not assist these people if the idea is an idea of assistance? This is what they told him: “Sell us two dinars of your salary, and we will give you four hundred dinars.” You say: Yes, this is assistance from the state to this man; even though he has a salary. When I told you earlier: they gave him a salary so that he could live in his state of retirement. Well, then why did they buy from him two dinars for four hundred dinars? Extra assistance, beautiful words, beautiful poetic words; then why did they not assist the children because they are employed? Here they assist him while he is retired, hmm? And they inherited from him what they inherited of the retirement money, so they transferred half the pension after his death to his wife. She died, and the remaining pension does not transfer to the heirs because they are employed. Where is the previous justification that they want to support the people? Please.
The questioner : O Shaykh, meaning, adding... to your statement that selling the salary is restricted to those who have reached approximately the age of sixty and five. If his age exceeds sixty and five, he has no right to sell the salary.
The Shaykh : Of course; because he is exposed to death!!
The questioner : Yes, this...
The Shaykh : It is all gambling.
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : So this transaction is not permissible in its origin, it is not permissible in its origin because it is defective in its origin, and what is built upon a defective foundation is defective.
Another questioner : It is not that the institution invests this...
The questioner : What is our position, because we are... forced.
Another questioner : ... .
The questioner : Leave it for later.
The Shaykh: Yes.
The questioner : ... We have an institution called the Social Insurance Institution for retirees. As long as you are an employee of the state, it deducts a fixed amount from your salary, ten or fifteen dinars, and it invests it. Every month it deducts from you until you reach retirement age. If you reach retirement age, it begins to spend on you, giving you a salary from the date you reach retirement age without you working; of course, you stay at home and it gives it to you. Is it permissible? It granted, meaning, the materials it has, that it is permissible for one who has reached retirement age to—for example—sell, if he is entitled to it after retirement age, let us suppose it is three hundred dinars. I can sell it for one dinar against twenty dinars or two hundred dinars. For every dinar I waive from the salary, they give me cash now, two hundred dinars for this. Is this permissible?
The Shaykh : Excuse me, you assumed that three hundred dinars were saved for him?
The questioner : We do not know how it is; it invests it.
The Shaykh : ... You mentioned two thousand dinars.
The questioner : Ah, no, no, his salary after reaching retirement age is three hundred dinars, they spend on him...
The Shaykh : His salary?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh: Good.
The questioner : So it is his right, every person who has reached retirement age, to waive one or two dinars.
The Shaykh : Wait for me, so his salary as a retiree is three hundred dinars, for example.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : ... for example.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Okay, is this a state operation or a company?
The questioner : No, this is a state institution, attached to the state.
The Shaykh : State.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Okay, the state.
Another questioner : ... His salary—Shaykh—would be five hundred dinars, for example. If at retirement age the amount... on paper... he sells part of the salary, fifty dinars, for example. They give him only two hundred and fifty dinars, and he sells fifty dinars, they give you... dinars, and it comes out to fifteen thousand dinars for you. They did this on the basis that the poor employee benefits or something. This amount can be traded in; he can trade and do something, meaning, and thus he is not dependent on Allah, then on this salary. This is their intention.
The Shaykh : I am still slow in understanding this financial matter; you need to be patient with me until I understand it.
--
The Shaykh : Stop, stop, did you stop? ...
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : Repeat the question for me? The one recorded, repeat it on the tape.
The questioner : It is recorded, Shaykh.
The Shaykh : I know, I want to hear it so we can stop and start with the answer.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Or we record this transcription that we just wrote.
The questioner : ... .
[Replay from the recorded tape]: They give him only two hundred and fifty dinars, and he sells fifty dinars, they give you... dinars, and it comes out to fifteen thousand dinars for you. They did this on the basis that the poor employee benefits or something. This amount can be traded in; he can trade and do something, meaning, and thus he is not dependent on Allah, then on this salary. This is their intention.
The Shaykh : I am still slow in understanding this financial matter; you need to be patient with me until I understand it.
The Shaykh : Stop, stop, did you stop?
--
The questioner : This is from the beginning.
...
Another questioner : The questioner: The question, Shaykh, is that there is an employee working in the state, and he receives a salary during his work, and a fixed amount is deducted from this salary. This amount is invested by the Social Insurance Institution, which is one of the state's institutions. So when the man dies after reaching retirement age, the government spends on him a salary that may be less than his previous salary.
The Shaykh: Yes.
The questioner : And this salary continues to be paid to him, and it is the man's right to sell one dinar of his salary for two hundred dinars, which he receives in cash. For example, if his salary is three hundred dinars, he waives one dinar.
The Shaykh : Three hundred dinars in what situation?
The questioner : Retirement.
The Shaykh : Retirement, okay.
The questioner : So he waives two dinars, so his salary becomes two hundred and ninety-eight dinars, and he takes for the two dinars he waived, for every dinar two hundred dinars, so he takes four hundred dinars in cash.
The Shaykh : From whom?
The questioner : From the government, from this institution.
The Shaykh : Meaning, if he waives it to the government?
The questioner : Yes, for one dinar.
The Shaykh : For two dinars out of the three hundred.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : He takes four hundred for the two dinars.
The questioner : Yes; is this permissible?
The Shaykh : Okay, is this specific to the state, or can another person outside the state do it?
The questioner : Even if it is another person, as long as he is committed to paying an installment to the government. Even a merchant can do this matter. Even a private merchant who owns a shop.
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : He agrees with the institution that he will pay it a monthly installment.
Another questioner : ... Even the merchant.
The questioner : Yes, even the merchant now, every employee, everyone on the face of the earth in Kuwait can... if he is a Kuwaiti; even if he is a merchant working in a private shop, he waives an installment such that when he reaches retirement age, the government spends on him.
The Shaykh : Is this waiver done in the case of his retirement, or before his retirement?
The questioner : No, if he is not an employee, a merchant.
The Shaykh : Employee, employee. The employee who has this retirement waives...
The questioner : Two dinars.
The Shaykh : Two dinars.
The questioner : After.
The Shaykh : In the case of his retirement.
The questioner : In the case of his retirement, yes.
The Shaykh : Yes, okay. Before answering this question, the thing is unreasonable, but the explanation is, as they say: "When the cause appears, the wonder ceases." How does the state pay four hundred dinars for two dinars? What is the reason for that?
The questioner : The reason for that is that the government may take into consideration that this man may die, if he does not, let us suppose he has no descendants.
The Shaykh : No, suppose he has descendants.
The questioner : Let us suppose he has descendants.
The Shaykh: Yes.
The questioner : Because this man, Allah may decree that he dies one or two months after retirement, and people's salaries decrease by a large percentage, even if he has descendants.
The Shaykh : A large percentage? You said just now a small percentage.
The questioner : No, in his death, in the case of his death.
The Shaykh : But, may Allah bless you.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : And I gave the example that the man died one day after his retirement.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : You said: his retirement salary transferred to his wife.
The questioner : It is not...
The Shaykh : I told you. Do not rush me, I told you: is it the same? I said: No, less than that. Now, what is the percentage of the reduction?
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : We must know.
The questioner : It may reach half the amount.
The Shaykh : Half the amount.
The questioner : Half the amount.
The Shaykh : Okay; and if the wife dies; does the second half transfer to the heirs or does it decrease?
The questioner : No, it is not, Shaykh, meaning...
The Shaykh : ... Because, you...
The questioner : It is estimated that each son—for example—gets twenty dinars, if he is not a working employee. If he is an employee, he has no right to this salary of his father. Or his wife is married, she has no right to the salary...
The Shaykh : Okay; let us suppose the wife who inherited half the salary, okay? She died and left children, all of them are employees, all of them are employees.
The questioner : The salary is cut off.
The Shaykh : Ah, so who does the salary remain for? The state?
The questioner : The state, yes, the state takes it.
The Shaykh : It is all a matter of gambling in gambling, so it is not permissible. Now we return to ask: the state buys the two dinars for four hundred dinars; why? Why did you say?
The questioner : For one of the reasons, to help this employee who left the job to invest in this amount which we said reaches fifteen dinars.
The Shaykh : Help by giving him a retirement salary, it is for help.
The questioner : There is no salary, there is...
The Shaykh : It is because it is going; I say: this salary is going, this is help for him.
The questioner : This is assistance, but... it is not sufficient for him—for example, especially in a country like Kuwait where there is high inflation. They want to invest... the state also benefits; because the return will go back to the state. The fifteen thousand will be returned to them, so they want us to... of course, he will receive his salary, but it is insufficient. They set it at three hundred dinars, which will be approximately two hundred and fifty dinars. The fifty dinars were used to buy what he—for example—the fifteen thousand dinars he worked for in the market.
Another questioner : ... submitted later.
The questioner : And then, in a case that may be similar to this: they give government houses to Kuwaitis—for example—and if the husband dies, his installment is waived. Of course, they give them on installments, so his installment is waived. So the objective, we can say, is that the state’s main concern is...
The Shaykh : ... earning.
The questioner : ... earning, but they assist him...
The Shaykh : It invalidates it—may Allah reward you—the other scenarios.
The questioner: Yes, Shaykh.
The Shaykh : It invalidates it, the other scenario: when the husband died, half of his salary transferred to his wife. When the wife died, this half transferred to the husband’s children if they were not employed.
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : If they were employed, the salary—half the salary—transferred to the state. And why do they not assist these people if the idea is an idea of assistance? This is what they told him: “Sell us two dinars of your salary, and we will give you four hundred dinars.” You say: Yes, this is assistance from the state to this man; even though he has a salary. When I told you earlier: they gave him a salary so that he could live in his state of retirement. Well, then why did they buy from him two dinars for four hundred dinars? Extra assistance, beautiful words, beautiful poetic words; then why did they not assist the children because they are employed? Here they assist him while he is retired, hmm? And they inherited from him what they inherited of the retirement money, so they transferred half the pension after his death to his wife. She died, and the remaining pension does not transfer to the heirs because they are employed. Where is the previous justification that they want to support the people? Please.
The questioner : O Shaykh, meaning, adding... to your statement that selling the salary is restricted to those who have reached approximately the age of sixty and five. If his age exceeds sixty and five, he has no right to sell the salary.
The Shaykh : Of course; because he is exposed to death!!
The questioner : Yes, this...
The Shaykh : It is all gambling.
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : So this transaction is not permissible in its origin, it is not permissible in its origin because it is defective in its origin, and what is built upon a defective foundation is defective.
Another questioner : It is not that the institution invests this...
The questioner : What is our position, because we are... forced.
Another questioner : ... .
The questioner : Leave it for later.
Source
www.al-albany.com
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