Some scholars hold that it is the Sunnah for the imam to arrive for the prayer when the iqamah is called, and it is well known that fitnah (trial, discord or temptation) occurs due to this imam’s delay?

The questioner : "Rida" holds that it is the Sunnah for the imam not to come to the prayer until; meaning, he does not enter until the prayer is called for immediately. It is observed that fitnah (trial, discord or temptation) occurs in the mosque, and because of his delay, he does not come until after.

The Shaykh : And upon you be peace, hey, it is.

The questioner : Yes, my Shaykh, I am telling you... my Shaykh.

The Shaykh : What Allah willed...

The questioner : So, is it the Sunnah for the imam to delay until, meaning, the prayer is not called for until he enters, even though this causes fitnah (trial, discord or temptation) in the heart of the mosque?

The Shaykh : We hear from him, does he agree with this statement?

Another questioner : Peace be upon you and Allah's mercy.

The Shaykh : And upon you be peace, and the mercy of Allah and His blessings.

Another questioner : In this manner, the fitnah (trial, discord or temptation) occurs.

Another questioner : How is our Shaykh doing? May you be well?

Another questioner : How is Abu Abdullah?

Another questioner : Welcome.

Another questioner : What is the news? Good?

Another questioner : The fitnah (trial, discord or temptation) does not occur merely upon my arrival and the mu'adhdhin calling for the prayer, or... the prayer. The fitnah (trial, discord or temptation) occurs when I misuse this behavior and come after the time determined by the Endowments has passed, a quarter of an hour, or a third of an hour, or ten minutes, or the like. So the commotion happens when I enter late. But if, for example, I enter exactly on time and comply with what the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) did, and the prayer is called for, nothing happens. The fitnah (trial, discord or temptation) occurs when I enter two or three minutes late: "Where is the Shaykh? Where is the Shaykh? Where is the imam who is standing...?" Like that, confusion occurs.

The Shaykh : Is there a difference between your statement and his statement?

Another questioner : I do not observe a difference.

The Shaykh : He clarifies two points in the matter.

Another questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : The first point is the timing announced by the Endowments in the mosques. So he says: If he delays until this time, no fitnah (trial, discord or temptation) will occur, but if he delays more, fitnah (trial, discord or temptation) will occur.

The questioner : By Allah, his statement seems to be not entirely accurate.

Another questioner : Of course, it is not accurate.

The Shaykh : Therefore, we need to reconcile the two statements.

The questioner : ... Of course, the truth is... Of course, I want to hear... .

The Shaykh : It is sufficient for you to hear from one person.

The questioner: All right.

The questioner : No, and perhaps you can hear from several people, but we do not want to hear anything but... the statement is not accurate, as evidenced by the fact that today, they raised a commotion again, even though he came one minute before the time.

Another questioner: No.

The questioner : One minute.

Another questioner : He came late, my Shaykh.

The questioner : No, you came, according to what you said, you said: "One minute remained, fourteen minutes passed," you said.

Another questioner : I was mistaken, I told you: I assumed, this was an illusion of mine that I was on time. When I went out, it became clear to me that this illusion was not accurate; as evidenced by the fact that they called for the prayer and a commotion occurred.

The Shaykh : No, when you went out, hey, where did you go?

Another questioner : To the mosque.

The Shaykh : When you entered the mosque.

Another questioner : Ah, when I entered the mosque, ah, I mean I went out from my house.

The Shaykh : I understand "went out" to mean "left."

Another questioner : Ah, no, I went out to the mosque. If I, for example, right now, he finished... for example, between the adhan and the iqamah in the Zuhr prayer, a quarter of an hour; if I entered five minutes before that, for example, one minute, no one would make a commotion. But what happened today is that I entered after the time, even though I was under the illusion that I was on time, but it became clear to me from you that I came late.

The questioner : Okay.

Another questioner : So the commotion occurs after, after... .

The questioner : Even though you did not clarify this to me, even though you are clarifying it now, there is no objection, but I tell you that... .

Another questioner : Generally speaking.

The questioner : Generally, also, it has happened more than once that the prayer is called for, and you say "two minutes remain," "three minutes still remain," and a problem occurs between you and "Abbud" specifically, right or not?

Another questioner : ... .

The questioner : No, no, there is, once is enough, I think it was more than once, in fact, several times.

Another questioner : ... .

Another questioner : "Abbud" makes, "Abbud" makes problems.

The Shaykh : But excuse me.

Another questioner : Let us enter into the issue, please.

The Shaykh : Do not stray, do not go east and west, I see this statement is in his interest.

The questioner : Excuse me, we are clarifying the reality.

The Shaykh : But you are aiming to establish an argument against him, whereas this is not an argument for him.

The questioner : I say, I am not aiming to establish an argument, I want to clarify the truth in the matter.

The Shaykh: Yes.

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : Clarify the truth, and what is the truth in your view? That he is mistaken.

The questioner : Yes, in my view, it is obligatory for him to hasten to come to the mosque, this is my belief, I see that he must hasten in coming to the mosque, it is not a condition that he comes when the adhan is called; no, at least before the prayer is called for by five, or five minutes; because what happens is that if you go out like this, the imam is not present, so one of them stands up and calls for the prayer, sometimes with the time.

Another questioner: No, no... .

The questioner : Sometimes with the time, sometimes a little before the time, sometimes after the time.

The Shaykh : Okay; let us, so that there is not much discussion, now I understood from you that if the times are announced, for example, that the Zuhr prayer is called for a quarter of an hour after the adhan, for example; so you suggest that the imam arrives before this time by four or five minutes, which is... .

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : Do you suggest this?

The questioner : Yes, only that and nothing else.

The Shaykh : What is your opinion of this suggestion?

Another questioner : My opinion?

The Shaykh : If it were me? What is your opinion?

Another questioner : I say, meaning; my opinion.

The Shaykh : Do not say: "My opinion," I am asking you: What is your opinion? You say this.

Another questioner: No.

The Shaykh : Oh?

Another questioner: No.

The Shaykh : How is it not?

Another questioner : No, meaning... please... .

The Shaykh : Yes, what is your opinion, clarify?

Another questioner : My opinion is that I mean the time ends, for example, at five minutes before, six minutes before, I am present, right? But the one who holds the iqamah of the prayer should take care of the time with me, meaning, we two agree; that you take care of it and I take care of it at home, and we see, meaning, we strive for this Sunnah, I pray the Sunnah at home, I wait, for example, for the Fajr or Zuhr matter, that the time comes, its place is about seven minutes, the adhan is early in Zuhr, I wait for them at home, and they count seven minutes, eight minutes, I stand up and pray... rak'ahs... we offered them before, and then I go out to the mosque, it will be one minute remaining, the mu'adhdhin... the prayer.

The Shaykh : What do I need this speed for? What do I need this speed for?

Another questioner : No, I wait four minutes, because I do not reach four minutes.

The Shaykh : I understand, this is his suggestion, do you reject it?

Another questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : Why? This talk I talked about, we do not need it, why do you reject it?

Another questioner : The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) used to enter and then the prayer was called for.

The Shaykh : Good, did the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) do this as legislation for people and as worship?

Another questioner : In my opinion, ah.

The Shaykh : How?

Another questioner : The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him).

The Shaykh : How, how do you mean? How did you understand that?

The questioner : The imamate of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) among the Muslims, is it not also an imamate for us?

The Shaykh : Do not expand the topic, you are asking us a question whose answer is known, but we are on this detail here; meaning, I want to circle around an ordinary Sunnah and a devotional Sunnah.

Another questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : Do you have, I think, knowledge of this?

Another questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : Good; the question now, so that we do not go east and west; is that you have evidence that this is an intended matter from the Messenger (peace be upon him) for the servants?

Another questioner: No.

The Shaykh : So how do you argue with this?

Another questioner : Meaning, I will not have an argument? I am mistaken in it, meaning?

The Shaykh : Do not jump in the research, I asked a question just now, I asked you, what did I ask you?

Another questioner : You told me: Why, since it is an ordinary Sunnah, why are you so attached to it and believe it is devotional?

The Shaykh : So then? Give me the answer. You tell me: "I am mistaken." I tell you: "You are mistaken." And we spend our time arguing and quarreling, which is of no benefit. Since you have knowledge that there is a customary sunnah and a devotional sunnah, and the delay of the Messenger (peace be upon him) is possibly not devotional, and this is what I understand, but if you are convinced that it is devotional, you need to present an argument and evidence for it, because they are opposing you in this action, so that they may be convinced. This is from one side. From another side, the congregation says that this delay causes disorder in the mosque, but the discussion of this disorder is postponed for now; because the original question is why he clung to this delay? The Messenger (peace be upon him) did it; on the head, but was his doing it intended for worship?

Another questioner : I didn't notice... the detail is either customary or devotional.

The Shaykh : Yes, may Allah reward you with good. This is the problem; the problem is that we didn't know, we didn't notice, and so on. Therefore, religion is advice and mutual advice. One should pay attention to this issue. What I understand is that the delay of the Messenger (peace be upon him) was not due to legislation. He was the head of a state, like other states, and he was a Prophet with religious duties upon him, as well as political and social duties, and so on. If a man today were in the position of the Messenger (peace be upon him) regarding the busyness of managing the state, a woman would not live with him; because he would not be free for her. So, if he took advantage of that time, how would the prayer be established? He would live with his family. You have no need for that life with your family. You have lived the whole life without managing a state, organizing armies, directing them, or anything else. So it is not possible that we imagine that the delay of the Messenger (peace be upon him) from going out when the adhan was called was a legislation for the general public. Rather, every person has his own circumstances. Especially if the public benefit requires—and peace be upon you—that you attend before the time.
Excuse me, does everyone say salam when you greet?

Another questioner : Hello.

The questioner : ... speech ... .

The Shaykh : We heard, we heard. We are seeing you moving your tongue, but what are you saying? I don't know!

The questioner : ... .

Another questioner : It is supposed to be.

Another questioner : ... hadith.

The Shaykh : There is no god but Allah.
Then, I see today that the imam has become a job like any other job, whereas the imamate must be elevated above the level of other jobs. The imam is like the school teacher and the subject professor; if he delivers his lesson, he enters to deliver it and leaves, that is just an employee like any employee in any job. But if the lesson is over, yet he lives with the students, he takes and gives with them, he meets with them before the lesson, during the break, during the free time, and so on; then he is performing a religious duty, not just a job. Likewise, the imam must mix with the worshippers before and after the prayer and sit with them. Perhaps you know that the Messenger (peace be upon him) used to sit after the Fajr prayer and receive his Companions. One of the Companions said: "And we would talk, until we would talk about the stories of the pre-Islamic age, and the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) would be with us, laughing and smiling with us." This character makes the imam become one of the group.

The questioner: Perfect.

The Shaykh : Do you see? He wins their hearts, he draws them to him. And we are in most need of this character in reality. As I always say, and forever: Our call is the call of truth, and it is heavy by its nature, ; therefore, you find that most people do not accept it and are not accepted to it. So when the weight of the method is added to the weight of the truth, what does it become?

The questioner : Weight upon weight.

The Shaykh : A doubled weight that people cannot bear. Weights, oh! Therefore, the imam must be gentle in character, and this is not imagined except through mixing with people. But how long? After a quarter of an hour, or a minute, he entered, and he had not yet reached the place of the mihrab when the iqamah was called. Peace be upon you and Allah's mercy, peace be upon you and Allah's mercy, may your heart be with the farewell!! This is a routine job that he is performing. This does not achieve the goal of the call at all. Therefore, I actually suggest that you do not commit to this level of punctuality, and I have clarified the reason. The reason is that he is under the illusion that this is a devotional sunnah.

Another questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : Okay; if you are under the illusion that it is a devotional sunnah; is it the completion of this sunnah that the Dhuhr is a quarter of an hour, and the Asr I don't know how long, and the Isha I don't know how long? Is this how a devotional sunnah is?

Another questioner : Of course not, but it is obligatory upon us. This was against my will, whether I was present or I came on time, a quarter of an hour, a quarter of an hour.

The Shaykh : Okay; if it is imposed on you by law and you accepted it, then accept what is imposed on you for the sake of public benefit.

Another questioner: Correct.

Another questioner : May Allah reward you with good, our Shaykh.

The Shaykh : May Allah reward with good the one who raised the issue.