How do we deal with a relative who deals in riba (usury or interest) and whom we have advised but who has not heeded the advice?

The questioner : If a close relative of a person deals in riba (usury or interest), and he has advised him once, twice, and three times, but he does not take heed—meaning he takes heed of the verses at that moment, but then afterwards he reverts to it.

The Shaykh : I mean, like the foam of soap.

The questioner : It could be his wife, or his sister, or his mother, among those close to him, and he lives with them. What should he do? May Allah reward you with good.

The Shaykh : First, one must look at the issue from two sides, because the reality and the experience I have had with such questions is that when I say, for example, that severing ties is obligatory, we do not reach that point. But after back-and-forth and discussion, the result is that this person is enthusiastic, yet he is compelled to remain with the group and finds no way out from them. Why? He may be a student of knowledge, or young in age, finding no shelter, no one to provide for him, no one to support him. So, at the end, I say, may Allah bless you. If the question is not applicable, I say: first, can he sever ties or not? If he can sever ties, then the next matter is for this person to consider whether, if he adopts the principle of severing ties and boycotting for the sake of Allah, the outcome of this severing will be better than the previous continuation, or worse? If the answer is that it is better, we say: sever ties and do not care. If the answer is that it is not, he must break the harm, whether for himself or for others. For example, I give you an example of two close friends, one righteous and the other wicked. This righteous one knew of that wicked one’s deviation, so he took to advising him and reminding him. But as it is said, “Even if you called out, you would hear a living person, but there is no life for the one who is called.” And so on. Finally, he resolved to warn him of severing ties unless he responded to the call of truth. If it becomes predominant in the righteous friend’s mind that he will not be spared, he asks about severing ties. In fact, he goes to rest from his harm, in his opinion, because his pursuit with advice is considered by the other as a nuisance and a harm to him. So when he says to him, “This is a parting between you and me,” he says, “You are breaking it, and I am invalidating it.” He rests from this person and sits, taking his freedom in his deviant departure from Islam. Is this clear to you? At that time, we say: no, do not sever ties. Continue with him through admonition and reflection. But as the common Syrian proverb says, “Strike the hoof, strike the nail,” meaning alternating between this and that, between the command and silence. As came in the hadith of al-Bukhari from Abdullah ibn Mas’ud, may Allah be pleased with him: And the companions of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) were like that. So what about these people if they are scattered and they are misguided? If you kill them, you press them with admonition and reminder, they will scatter, they will attack you. This is the answer to what you asked. Perhaps I have covered the answer, or perhaps I missed something; remind me of it.

The questioner : May Allah reward you with good, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh : And you. Yes.