Dialogue between the Shaykh and one of the students regarding purification and upbringing.

The Shaykh : The meaning of the word "purification" is very clear: it refers to purifying Islam, the Islamic religion, from whatever has entered it that is foreign to it, whether it relates to the fundamentals or the branches, as they say, or in other words, whether it relates to beliefs or rulings, or transactions, or morals. And I say this frankly right now: your question means that your mind, and the mind of the Salafi youth in Kuwait, is devoid of the meaning of this technical term, "purification."

The questioner : No, my Shaykh, allow me to speak on their behalf. You mentioned this statement, and I want to build upon it, meaning... and I want to confirm after we proceed, because I have not heard a detailed tape that I understand, meaning according to my understanding of the words. Even if you explain it to me, I have raised synonymous questions so that the matter becomes clear.

The Shaykh : All right, what do you say if we shorten the path? If you clarify to me what you understand by this word, I will answer you regarding the optimal plan we agreed upon, whether you are right or wrong, truth or falsehood. What do you say? Yes.

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : Fine, go ahead. What do you understand by the word "purification"? I have explained my opinion on the matter to you, but this opinion needs some detail. But what do you understand by the word "purification," and then what do you understand by the word "upbringing"? Go ahead.
The student : I say, my Shaykh, as for purification.

The Shaykh : How?
The student : Purification is the application or removal of whatever has attached itself to the belief of the righteous Salaf in the form of impurities, wrongs, and innovations, and extracting them so that it remains pure, as the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) explained to us. In summary, it is extracting every innovation that has entered it.

The Shaykh: All right.
The student : This is as for purification.

The Shaykh : With respect to what? Purification or upbringing?
The student : As for upbringing, it is the practical, methodical conduct that is built upon this purified Islam.

The Shaykh : All right, that is the intended meaning. What is behind the question?
The student : I hope I have not wronged the Salafi brothers in Kuwait by initially asking about this concept.

The Shaykh : I do not know, because you do not represent every brother there, but we fear that the matter may be so.
The student : Yes, that is why I gave this answer, meaning.

The Shaykh : This, my brother, is my answer on the tapes always, but now the matter requires some delving into details. Is the Salafi call now in the stage of purification or the stage of upbringing? Yes or no.
The student : This is one of the questions...

The Shaykh : Now the one in charge has become the questioner andThe questioner : the questioner has become the one in charge, so I hope for an answer.
The student : ... I told you I have questions I will put to you, and this statement is built upon them. I told you, let us shorten it and start with you.

The Shaykh : Okay, I repeat my question as well.
The student : No, I told you, start you...

The Shaykh : Why did you not say this when I told you, "Can I understand what you understand by the words upbringing and purification?" Why did you not insist that I only asked you, and I want the answer from you? I answer you because you know what is meant by purification and upbringing. But when I asked you, "Are we in the stage of purification or the stage of upbringing now?" and you do not know, you should say, "I do not know." And therefore I asked you. But if you do know, as you knew what purification and upbringing are and answered, you should also have answered. Is my speech clear?
The student: Very clear.

The Shaykh : May Allah reward you with good. And therefore, we do not enter into argument or discussion. Do you know? Go ahead. Do you know? I do not know, and half of knowledge is saying "I do not know."
The student : I told you that the two stages are concomitant.

The Shaykh : All right, and I agree with you that it is not permissible to separate purification from upbringing. Fine, you agree. What layer? You agree. So we embrace it. Are we now at the beginning of the path, in the middle of it, or at the end of it? Now, when... and you fall silent. I understand, and everyone understands that you are thinking about the answer, and there is no blame on you for that. But do not say, "My Shaykh wrongs me," even if it is in your heart, do not say it in your heart.
The student : I did not say...

The Shaykh : You may not say, "My brother," and you may say, "I am not infallible," and I am not infallible.
The student : The language of the situation says so.

The Shaykh : The language of the situation speaks louder than the language of the words. Nevertheless, we do not assert; the matter is possible. So now, do I get the answer?
The student : I say, Shaykh, that this varies from environment to environment and from society to society. It may be in some societies... and in others.

The Shaykh : A sound and political answer. What is the role of the best society now regarding purification and upbringing? Is it at the beginning, in the middle, or at the end? Is my question not clear?
The student : ... Currently, in which stage?

The Shaykh : Did you not say that it varies? All right, take the best society.
The student : I take from your words, Shaykh, when you mentioned that the Gulf region is better than the rest, as you mentioned Albania... this region is better than the rest.

The Shaykh : This is not an answer to the question. This is... this is not the answer to the question.
The student : ... At the beginning, or the middle, or the end?

The Shaykh: Yes.
The student : ... Meaning that the stage of purifying the belief from what has attached to it has become apparent. The Salafi call has become, meaning, apparent... but the process of spreading it, purifying their beliefs, I almost say that in my opinion, it is in the middle.

The Shaykh : You have demolished much of your agreed-upon speech on purification. Do you know how? It was not in my statement and your statement together that purification is confined to belief, but rather in all of Islam. And I mentioned to you purification that includes beliefs, rulings, transactions, and conduct. So what do you say now that you have taken only one side of these sides from purification and built upon it that purification is in the middle of the path in the best country or society? Why did you specify this division? Is this not an error?
The student : Because, Shaykh, conduct...

The Shaykh : Conduct in the sense of the intellectual, then the practical conduct comes later. For example, is Sufism not conduct? Is it not a path? All right, but this Sufi conduct is, of course, not from Islam. So it is necessary to purify the minds of Muslims from such Sufi conduct, and then the issue of upbringing comes. So it is necessary that purification be in these types: in belief, in rulings, in acts of worship, meaning prayer and fasting, and so on, in transactions, buying and selling, and the like, in conduct. This is the last word that can be said. But in any case, if a problem arises in your mind regarding conduct, leave it aside, for the previous objection will return regarding your confining purification to belief. My brother, the matter is as I explained in several tapes, and I wanted, based on your question, to enter into the same detail after I apologized that it is something tedious for me, repeating what I have previously said over and over again, were it not that I felt that you are understanding. Meaning, what is the intended meaning of purification? So now, leave conduct... purification in beliefs, we have purification in rulings, let us stay with these two types only. Acts of worship enter into rulings, transactions enter into rulings, correct? And transactions in their two sections, what they call personal status and others. Let us shorten the speech. So purification, purification includes purifying Islam from everything that has entered it, whether it is belief or a Sharia ruling. A Sharia ruling includes, remaining, everything, even conduct. Let us leave this detail. So now, is purification in the middle of the path in the best and most ideal country regarding belief and Sharia rulings?

The questioner : Are you speaking about the role of the scholars? Do they perform this?

The Shaykh : Yes, the role of the scholars is so.
The student : Meaning, we are speaking about the employment of the scholars, their employment, this...

The Shaykh: Yes.
The student : Meaning, I want to start the question based on, so that I clarify, is purification... the investigation, meaning, if we investigate, for example, the innovations and superstitions.

The Shaykh : Purification is by writing and speech.
The student : Does acceptance enter into it?

The Shaykh : How?
The student : Is acceptance included in it?

The Shaykh : Acceptance, no.
The student : Is it part of purification?

The Shaykh : Acceptance falls under education, yes. Purification, may Allah reward you. As is apparent, it is obligatory upon the scholars, and education is obligatory upon the entire Muslim community. The scholars educate themselves based on their knowledge, and the general Muslims educate themselves based on the knowledge of their scholars. So when you say that in the best and most ideal society, they are halfway there, I do not think you have kept in mind this broad, comprehensive meaning of purifying Islam from what has entered it, whether in creed or in rulings. These two words, in reality, refer to the entire purified Islam that Allah revealed to the heart of Muhammad (peace be upon him). And so, it appears to me, and Allah knows best, that most of today's Islamic callers are absolutely unable to conceive of the magnitude of the responsibility they carry. They think that the mere response and enthusiasm of the general Muslims in establishing Islamic rule on earth is the result of purification. But this is never the case. As Imam Malik (may Allah have mercy on him) said in his statement, which I believe deserves the words we have inherited from generation to generation—that it is a statement to be written in gold ink: "Whoever innovates in Islam an innovation that he sees as good has claimed that Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) betrayed the message." Read the words of Allah (Blessed and Exalted is He): And the last of this community will not be rectified except by what rectified its beginning. So whatever was not a religion at that time will not be a religion today. Whatever was not a religion at that time will not be a religion today. This creed alone, this alone. Do you believe that we are halfway there in the best country? Is there any people, no matter how you assess them, and some say today that their value and status have been raised, who have a general awareness that, as Imam Malik said: "The last of this community will not be rectified except by what rectified its beginning."
The student : I still have a difficulty. Do we consider this part of purification or part of education?

The Shaykh : It is purification, followed by education.
The student : I mean, I understand.

The Shaykh : Purification, may Allah reward you, is an intellectual, conceptual matter. Education is a practical matter, applying what has taken place in the mind.
The student : I understand, O our Shaykh.

The Shaykh: All right.
The student : But I say that purification, our scholars mean that they purify what has attached itself to creeds and rulings. And without doubt, as you mentioned, it may be through writing or ... this is purification. But as for the second part, which is the acceptance of the people or the general people ... on what do we evaluate them?

The Shaykh: Yes.
The student : On the extent of their understanding of this, and on the extent of the purification of their creed, worship, and rulings. If this is my understanding, then this is part of purification. So if we return to the question, are we in the stage of purification ... and I hope you will be broad-minded ...

The Shaykh : You know that riba (usury or interest) is forbidden by the consensus of the Muslims, and that the most sinful of the open sinners among the Muslims knows that riba is forbidden. But despite that, he engages in riba, right? So if we assume there was an opinion permitting riba, his knowledge is now purified and he understands that riba is forbidden. But did he abandon riba? He did not abandon riba. So there is purification in the mind of this person, but there is no education, right? Now, I gave the example of riba, which is unanimously agreed to be forbidden. In the Syrian expression, we called it "clear as day," meaning a very clear example that does not accept discussion. Now, let us go down and give an example of 'inah (a buy-back sale used to disguise a loan). Is it known to the society we are talking about, which is the best and most ideal?