They say that you previously issued a ruling to some of the brothers who wanted to travel to Sweden to learn computer science, and you ruled that it was forbidden.

The questioner: All right; there is another objection from them that you once spoke, our Shaykh, with one of the brothers; he said: I went to Sweden to study computer science.

The Shaykh: To?

The questioner: Sweden.

The Shaykh: Sweden?

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh : Yes.

The questioner: To study computer science and how to use the laboratories, and you informed him of the harms, and the honorable Shaykh "Abu Malik" was with you, so you informed him of the harms of the... and he complained, he said: And I go from the university to the mosque and to the room where he lives. So you told him: It is not permissible for you to do that. And at the same time, now we mentioned, I said: They want to do jihad but they do not even possess a needle that they know how to make locally to sew patches on their clothes; so they say: The Shaykh says: It is not permissible to go out until we go outside the country to learn so that we know how to make things ourselves, and he also says: When we are martyred in jihad and such, he says: And we do not possess weapons; so how do we reconcile these two opposites... in their view?

The Shaykh: What did the Messenger - peace be upon him - do? What did the Messenger do? The fact that the Messenger is the role model has made this belief practically abrogated from the minds of Muslims. The Messenger - may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him - did not triumph over Persia and Rome, who were at that time most like America and Russia before their defeat; they were the two great powers controlling the known world at that time, then the Muslim community arose under the leadership of the Messenger - may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him -; so did the Messenger - may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him - triumph with material weapons as the basis, or with spiritual weapons?

The questioner: Spiritual weapons.

The Shaykh: Spiritual; this does not contradict the use of material weapons within the limits of possibility, but the basis is spiritual weapons.
Now they are reversing the issue; they say - for example - as you conveyed that the Shaykh says: It is not permissible to go to the lands of disbelief to learn - for example - the sciences that help them with material preparation; this is completely understood. Why does the Shaykh say this? Do they not know that the Shari'ah does not want Muslims to entangle themselves in moral harms, and perhaps doctrinal and intellectual harms? They know this truth; so they want, as some Islamic preachers today explicitly state, that the goal justifies the means; that is: for us to be strong materially, we must be like the Europeans in material preparation; no, this is not acceptable, and in my belief, it is not possible for Muslims and for the Islamic state when it is established - and we hope that will be soon - for this state to be like the disbelievers in terms of material preparations; because the disbelievers are dedicated to this aspect of material preparation, unlike Muslims, rulers and ruled, who are not dedicated to material preparation, but rather they are directed toward spiritual preparation before material preparation; and therefore these people referred to by some preachers.
Please proceed.
They want to follow the path of the Jews, the path of the disbelievers, and this is of course not permissible; because Allah - Mighty and Majestic - branded and sealed the disbelievers by His saying in the Noble Qur'an: . Muslims must have their situation be the exact opposite, except what Allah wills, to the extent of applying His saying - the Exalted - : material strength, but the primary strength is spiritual faith; and therefore this objection that you conveyed from the group - also - indicates to us their deviation from the correct Islamic jurisprudence, so if we say - for example - : It is not permissible for Muslim women to enter mixed universities because there is corruption in it, exposing the girls and the young men to fitnah.
We will be asked: Where do we get the nurses and the female doctors, and so on? This is actually said.
We say in some proverbs: "For every drop in the neighborhood, there is a catcher," not every woman and not every Muslim youth and Muslim women; not every individual among them has the capacity to apply the Shari'ah rulings in their entirety. So if someone says, as you heard earlier, that the person who spoke from "Thailand," and asked about riba, what is riba; if we say: The Messenger of Allah - may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him - said: ; do all Muslims respond to this command? The answer is: No, except a few of them; this is despite the fact that there is an explicit text: , and there is no explicit text that the common people understand as they understand this explicit text related to riba, there is no explicit text in the prohibition of mixing, especially if it is interpreted to obtain a science of the necessary kind; so I do not imagine that all Muslims and Muslim women will submit to this Shari'ah ruling, so the existence of female doctors, as an example, will be realized by the deviant individuals, it is not necessary for us to be the scapegoat, this deviant person may be harmed in whole or in part in his honor or his reputation, and yet in the end she will be a doctor and treat Muslim women instead of the male doctor treating them.
So the goal does not justify the means, and the doubt that I raised earlier stems from this Jewish principle.

The questioner: You conveyed it, my Shaykh.

The Shaykh : Oh?

The questioner: I conveyed it from you.

The Shaykh : May Allah reward you with good.

The questioner: And you as well, Shaykh.