Some hadith scholars use the terms "not authentic" or "not established" for certain hadiths; what is meant by this?
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The questioner : There is a question regarding hadith and terminology, concerning the fact that hadith scholars sometimes use the terms "not authentic" or "not established" for certain hadiths. What is the intent behind this statement? I found a thesis by Shaykh ... al-Abadi titled "Ghina'at al-Alami", in which the first question relates to this topic. He states that the intent is usually ... Shaykh ... al-Abadi holds that the usual intent is to indicate weakness or fabrication, and it is not intended to mean "good" (hasan) except in very rare cases, to the point that it is not called "good" at all. He did not distinguish between the different books, some of which were compiled on topics and weak narrators, and others that were compiled in this manner. However, I found, O Shaykh, that 'Abd al-Fattah Abu Ghuddah insists on this and supports his statement.
The Shaykh : Insists on what?
The questioner : On the fact that there is a difference in the usage of the two terms regarding hadiths and their intended meaning. He says ...
The Shaykh : The two terms or the one term?
The questioner : "Not authentic" and "not established," the two terms.
The Shaykh : Are you speaking now about the term "not authentic" and the term "not established"?
The questioner : Yes. He says that when hadith scholars use "not authentic" or "not established" for hadiths, we look at the sources and books. If they are from books of rulings, they intend to negate technical authenticity, meaning the hadith may be good (hasan) or weak, and not fabricated. And if they use them in books of fabrications and weak narrators and other books, the intent is to indicate fabrication and invalidity. What is your opinion?
The Shaykh : I understood from you, quoting Abu Ghuddah, that if "not authentic" and "not established" are said in books of rulings, that negates authenticity, but does it negate goodness or weakness? My opinion is that it negates goodness and establishes weakness, not fabrication.
The questioner : This is what we have known from the words of 'Abd al-'Aziz al-Abadi and through practice ...
The Shaykh : I mean, this is what I believe. However, if "not authentic" is said in books of fabrications, it is equivalent to saying it is fabricated.
The questioner : And if it is in books that combine fabrications and weak hadiths, naturally ...
The Shaykh : Investigation is necessary.
The questioner : And investigation is necessary. This is what I supported in the introduction I wrote for the thesis "Ghina'at al-Alami". I wrote the same statement you made, and in support of that, I mentioned that there is no difference or distinction, meaning they are not opposites: books of fabrications and books of rulings. In books of fabrications, you find many hadiths of rulings and many hadiths that hadith scholars narrated in rulings. And in books of rulings as well, there are some hadiths that are fabricated, such as in "Sunan Ibn Majah".
The Shaykh : This is a matter that does not go without exception, because a hadith scholar may say of a chain that its chain is weak, and it may be very weak, or it may be fabricated.
The questioner : Then, not all hadith scholars compiled on fabrications, or the compilation on fabrications came at the end. Also, books of fabrications and weak narrators, especially books of weak narrators, contain many weak and fabricated hadiths, meaning not all of them are fabricated and invalid, such as "Al-Kamil by Ibn 'Adi" and "Al-Du'afa' by al-'Uqayli". So I criticized his statement in the introduction to "Ghina'at al-Alami", which will reach you in this series, if Allah wills. So I wanted to confirm the correctness of this ...
The Shaykh : Well done.
The Shaykh : Insists on what?
The questioner : On the fact that there is a difference in the usage of the two terms regarding hadiths and their intended meaning. He says ...
The Shaykh : The two terms or the one term?
The questioner : "Not authentic" and "not established," the two terms.
The Shaykh : Are you speaking now about the term "not authentic" and the term "not established"?
The questioner : Yes. He says that when hadith scholars use "not authentic" or "not established" for hadiths, we look at the sources and books. If they are from books of rulings, they intend to negate technical authenticity, meaning the hadith may be good (hasan) or weak, and not fabricated. And if they use them in books of fabrications and weak narrators and other books, the intent is to indicate fabrication and invalidity. What is your opinion?
The Shaykh : I understood from you, quoting Abu Ghuddah, that if "not authentic" and "not established" are said in books of rulings, that negates authenticity, but does it negate goodness or weakness? My opinion is that it negates goodness and establishes weakness, not fabrication.
The questioner : This is what we have known from the words of 'Abd al-'Aziz al-Abadi and through practice ...
The Shaykh : I mean, this is what I believe. However, if "not authentic" is said in books of fabrications, it is equivalent to saying it is fabricated.
The questioner : And if it is in books that combine fabrications and weak hadiths, naturally ...
The Shaykh : Investigation is necessary.
The questioner : And investigation is necessary. This is what I supported in the introduction I wrote for the thesis "Ghina'at al-Alami". I wrote the same statement you made, and in support of that, I mentioned that there is no difference or distinction, meaning they are not opposites: books of fabrications and books of rulings. In books of fabrications, you find many hadiths of rulings and many hadiths that hadith scholars narrated in rulings. And in books of rulings as well, there are some hadiths that are fabricated, such as in "Sunan Ibn Majah".
The Shaykh : This is a matter that does not go without exception, because a hadith scholar may say of a chain that its chain is weak, and it may be very weak, or it may be fabricated.
The questioner : Then, not all hadith scholars compiled on fabrications, or the compilation on fabrications came at the end. Also, books of fabrications and weak narrators, especially books of weak narrators, contain many weak and fabricated hadiths, meaning not all of them are fabricated and invalid, such as "Al-Kamil by Ibn 'Adi" and "Al-Du'afa' by al-'Uqayli". So I criticized his statement in the introduction to "Ghina'at al-Alami", which will reach you in this series, if Allah wills. So I wanted to confirm the correctness of this ...
The Shaykh : Well done.