What is ta'wil (figurative interpretation), and what is permissible of it and what is not permissible?

The questioner : ... .

The Shaykh : Some of them are authentic and some are weak. He started narrating after he finished his narration, and I said to him, "A question?" He said, "Go ahead." I said, "Could you... some of the authentic hadiths... that you referred to, and some of the weak hadiths?" He did not answer. I found him turning around, a poor soul, going round and round, not wanting to answer. And honestly, I will not speak about hadiths tonight... Are you speaking or not...? You must prepare yourself to answer any question, whether it is from a scholar or an ignorant person, a polite person or an impolite person, etc. Do not say with this frankness that... you do not speak.

The questioner : ... .
Another questioner: ...

The Shaykh : ... .
Another questioner: What is permissible of it and what is not permissible, especially... whether in the Qur'an or in the Sunnah?

The Shaykh : In my opinion, there is no verse concerning the unseen of the unseen, which is Allah (Blessed and Exalted is He), that is interpreted; they are all without interpretation, on the apparent meaning.
Another questioner: Is this related to the unseen?

The Shaykh : ... Everything related to the unseen of the unseen, which is Allah (Glorified and Exalted is He). I feel that your question is about whether the report from your cousin is that the research is related to the divine attributes or not, otherwise the topic will be prolonged. You define your topic if it is not this or if it is, he will define it...
Another questioner: ... as much as possible, I have no problem...

The Shaykh : The people of ta'wil (figurative interpretation) are, first of all, inconsistent. In some places they interpret, and in some places... they explain the text without interpretation. Ta'wil in terminology is taking the text away from its apparent indication. This is ta'wil. And with this, they say that the original rule is not to interpret, and that one only resorts to interpretation out of necessity, where it is not possible to understand the text without interpretation. From this, it becomes clear to the researcher in their beliefs that they are extremely inconsistent; sometimes they do not interpret, and sometimes they interpret. If they interpret, they are compelled to interpret what they did not interpret, and when they do not interpret, they are compelled not to interpret whenever they do interpret, and so on. Take, for example, the divine knowledge. This is undoubtedly an attribute of Allah. None of them dares to interpret the divine knowledge or the divine power or other attributes that are certainly established. Although the motive for their interpretation of the verses and hadiths they did not interpret also drives them to interpret what they did not interpret. For example, ... and several verses say that Allah (Mighty and Majestic) is All-Aware of everything. The divine knowledge and human knowledge: this is knowledge and this is knowledge. Why do they not interpret the divine knowledge as they interpret hearing and sight, and they interpret the hand and they interpret istiwaa' (rising above the Throne), etc.? What they say in answer to their not interpreting knowledge, for example, and power and will, is the same that can be said regarding the verses or other attributes that came in verses or hadiths which they interpreted. Therefore, the scholars of the Salaf say, and this is in fact a decisive truth for the people of interpretation, indeed for the people of ta'til (denial of the divine attributes), that what is said regarding the attributes of Allah is what is said regarding the essence of Allah. What is said regarding the essence of Allah? The essence of Allah, considering that it is an essence that subsists by itself, or the Self-Subsisting, and it does not resemble essences, so we do not ask how the essence of Allah (Blessed and Exalted is He) is, at the same time as we do not deny it; we believe in it. But are there essences or are there no essences? Of course, there are many other essences, all of them created. So if there is no doubt in establishing the existence of Allah as an essence, what is the problem then in establishing an attribute of Allah (Mighty and Majestic) as an attribute? Even though this attribute that we establish for Him is an attribute by which some of His creations are described. ... Adam from this human being? It is Adam (peace be upon him), so He said about him, the Exalted: In the authentic hadith, there is a sharing of the name, but there is no sharing in the reality of the attribute. So the hearing of Allah and His sight are a reality subsisting by His true essence. It is not imaginary. This is an attribute, and that is "Hearing and Seeing," which does not resemble... that first human being whom He made hearing and seeing. Similarly, say about all the divine attributes. We have no need for interpretation at all. But they, due to their deviation from the Book and the Sunnah in some texts, imagined that the Salaf interpret some texts as they do with others. In reality, none of that is the case at all. For example, they bring a verse, for example, a verse related to Noah (peace be upon him) when he was hearing...
Another questioner: ...

The Shaykh : Yes, but we need the verse. You mean, "Our eyes" and "We saw with our eyes"?

The questioner : ... .

The Shaykh : ... What is the text of the verse?
Another questioner: Its beginning... Surah

The Shaykh : The important thing is "with our eyes." They say all the scholars, meaning we know what these people of interpretation who interpreted other than this verse say?

The questioner : ... .

The Shaykh : Yes?

The questioner : ... .

The Shaykh : Similarly, meaning "with you," we interpret it as being with you by knowledge. What do they say? This is interpretation. This is not interpretation. This is a style of the Arabic language that gives this meaning, as the Arab says: "I traveled and the moon" ... The Arab does not mean that he put his hand in his hand and walked with him? No. He means he was with his companion, and the Arab understands "I traveled and the moon" as "it shone upon me," but where is it? In the high sky, and I am on the earth. This is called interpretation, and many verses they claim are interpretation... among the most famous of these verses.
Another questioner: Peace be upon you.

The Shaykh : And upon you be peace and the mercy of Allah. That is, when they argue that there is interpretation of the Qur'an, Yes, this is being interpreted. How do you deny interpretation? The answer, by their unanimous agreement, those who interpret and those who do not interpret, is that interpretation is taking the text away from the apparent meaning that comes to mind... As soon as we hear the text, it escapes from this meaning because it is false; there is no departure. But here, it does not come to the mind of the listener. Meaning its walls, meaning its trees, this is the Arabic style, this is how the Arabs lived. Meaning its inhabitants. And thus, this is not called interpretation, because it is not called metaphor either. Its name is metaphor, a temporary terminology. Otherwise, the Arabs did not know metaphor. The reality is like the established grammar: the nominative, the accusative, the genitive, etc. These are terminologies.

The questioner : ... .

The Shaykh : Yes. But if we call this metaphor, and metaphor is a type of interpretation, but this does not fit with their saying... the chapter of interpretation is only... for interpretation when the reality is difficult. So what is the reality of this phrase? Its reality is not "ask its walls," but its reality is "ask its inhabitants who live in it." And similarly, the caravan. And thus, they do not call or compel the Salafis to say that you are interpreting. You are interpreting that it is by His knowledge.

The questioner : By His knowledge.

The Shaykh : Yes, we say "by His knowledge," but this is not interpretation because the context of the whole verse talks about what? Divine knowledge. Yes.

The questioner : And in the verse, the knowledge is one.

The Shaykh : It is known. ...

The questioner : ... .

The Shaykh : ... This is not interpretation because the verse cannot be understood except with this apparent meaning, which is "with you by His knowledge."

The questioner : ... The discussion is about the apparent meaning.

The Shaykh : The verse of our master Musa (peace be upon him). Meaning by insight.
No, knowledge is more precise than saying "insight." Meaning, you are coming to me here and I am with you... What will I do with you? You don't have...