What is the meaning of ta'wil (figurative interpretation)?

The questioner : In your question, you stated that there is no ta'wil (figurative interpretation) and no ta'til (denial of the divine attributes). Regarding the issue of ta'wil (figurative interpretation), we want to understand what the concept of ta'wil (figurative interpretation) is, because it is reported from the Salaf (the earliest generations).

The Shaykh : There is a rule, my brother, by which I will answer you, and it is well known what you are trying to say.

The questioner : Al-Bukhari and Ahmad...

The Shaykh : No, no, let us tell you: these scholars, to the extent of your knowledge of their ta'wil (figurative interpretation) or some of their ta'wil (figurative interpretation), do you believe that they are people of ta'wil (figurative interpretation) because they interpreted some texts and did not interpret the other texts? Or does this prove that this is what we worship Allah with, namely that there is some ta'wil (figurative interpretation), and this cannot be denied? But is the original meaning of every Arabic sentence ta'wil (figurative interpretation)?

The questioner : The truth is the original meaning.

The Shaykh : Well, this is what we say.

The questioner : That is, if its apparent meaning contradicts the transcendence of Allah, we interpret it.

The Shaykh : That is it.

The questioner : Excellent, by Allah, this is the essence of reason.

The Shaykh : This is it, but every issue, if one expands upon it, goes beyond its legal, rational, and logical limits. Do linguists now, when they communicate with one another, communicate on the basis of ta'wil (figurative interpretation) or on the basis of not interpreting? On the basis of the literal truth or on the basis of metaphor?

The questioner : The literal truth.

The Shaykh : Well, the speech of Allah the Exalted, the speech of Allah, He spoke to us in this Arabic style, so it is not permissible for us to come and open the door of ta'wil (figurative interpretation) and end up in far-reaching misguidance.

The questioner : Without guidelines, correct, right.

The Shaykh : So this is necessary. Therefore, for example, This verse is used as an argument by many of the people of ta'til (denial of the divine attributes) who interpret; you are interpreting. People, first, this is how it came from the interpreter of the Qur'an, who is 'Abdullah ibn 'Abbas (may Allah be pleased with him). Second: the beginning of the verse, its context and what precedes it, indicates that it is speaking about one of His attributes, which is knowledge. Therefore, this ta'wil (figurative interpretation) is not actually ta'wil (figurative interpretation); it was like His saying in the story of Yusuf: This is not ta'wil (figurative interpretation). Ta'wil (figurative interpretation) is what does not come to mind at the first moment, so a person is compelled, for one reason or another, to interpret. Here, in this verse, no Arab, whether by natural instinct or by learning, can understand from it anything other than what appears at first glance. "Ask the village" means its mountains, its walls, and its rivers. This is not what comes to mind. If, as the scholars say, there is a deleted implied noun, it is "the people." This is not ta'wil (figurative interpretation); this is the authentic Arabic meaning, so it is the literal truth. And the opposite: if I said "ask the mountains," that would be ta'wil (figurative interpretation), because that is the Arabic style. Similarly, the Arab says: "I walked, and the moon." What does "and the moon" mean? Does it mean he put his hand in his hand and his waist and walked? No, this meaning does not come to mind at all. This is not ta'wil (figurative interpretation), and so on. But in some things, it can be said that they are ta'wil (figurative interpretation). If our Salaf (the earliest generations) interpreted, it is on the head and eye, because they understood our religion, our Qur'an, and the hadiths of our Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) better than we do. But this is not the original meaning at all. From here, the Mu'tazilah (a rationalist theological sect) went astray until they reached the point where they denied the attributes of hearing and seeing. Do you know this truth?

The questioner : They say that hearing and seeing refer to...

The Shaykh : Knowledge, knowledge. They denied it, and some of them went so far as to deny knowledge, saying that Allah the Exalted does not know events before they occur, except after they occur. And the truth, as some of our scholars say, is that those who interpreted what they interpreted had first likened Allah to creation. Look at this joke; it is a very great joke. What does the statement mean?

The questioner : I did not understand...

The Shaykh : I say: they did not interpret except after they had likened Allah to creation. They first likened Allah to creation, then they found the likening to be false, so they fled from it to ta'wil (figurative interpretation), and they fell into what is more false.

The questioner : Ta'til (denial of the divine attributes).

The Shaykh : Ta'til (denial of the divine attributes). Therefore, the All-Knowing, the Wise said: "The one who ascribes a body to Allah worships an idol." To worship an idol means something that exists, but the one who denies the attributes worships non-existence. Therefore, these people interpret; before anything else, they liken Allah to creation. For example, recently I received a question from some Muslims who were afflicted with residing in Germany. He lives with a Shi'ah man, so he asked me some questions related to the creed of the Shi'ah, and so on. Then he asked about his saying (peace be upon him) regarding his Lord that He descends every night to the lowest heaven. The objection raised now against this hadith, you will see, is a purely material objection. Now that it is scientifically known that the earth is spherical and that at every moment it is in the third part of the night, what is the meaning of Allah descending every night in the last third of the night? People, fear Allah. You are objecting to this attribute based on your known attributes, namely your human weakness, so you are measuring the Lord of the Worlds by the creation. How can He descend every moment? You are likening the descent of the Lord of the Worlds to your descent. So when you are in this room, you go down to the bottom, you left this room.

The questioner : Oh, my goodness.

The Shaykh : From here comes misguidance. What is the likening to creation? He likened the Lord of the Worlds to this weak human being. This is false, and I am the first to declare it false. But does this lead me to say, "Then there is no descent"? No, I say He descends as He wills and as befits Him. I do not say "His mercy descends," and this is a hadithical and creedal misguidance. When they resort to a hadith in Sunan al-Nasa'i or in... that "a caller calls out." All the hadiths are mass-transmitted in mentioning the actor, who is Allah. "Allah descends" is a mass-transmitted hadith. Then the completion of the hadith invalidates the other narration, which is not only anomalous but denounced, because it has weakness, and with this weakness, it contradicts the other narrations found in the two Sahihs and others. The completion of the hadith invalidates this narration because it says: "Is there anyone who calls upon Me that I answer him? Is there anyone who asks Me that I give him? Is there anyone who seeks forgiveness from Me that I forgive him?" Is this Allah or a creation of Allah? This is the Allah who says, "Is there anyone who calls upon Me? Is there anyone who seeks forgiveness? Is there anyone who asks?" Go ahead, my brother.

The questioner : But Imam Malik interpreted...

The Shaykh : We are not in the position of ta'wil (figurative interpretation). We are done with this talk, we are done with it.

The questioner : What did you say? You said it leads to misguidance.

The Shaykh : Even if a goat flew.

The questioner : Not even if a goat flew. I don't know, now we have listened to you, do you want to listen to us?

The Shaykh : I am listening to you, but not about "even if a goat flew." I am telling you about ta'wil (figurative interpretation). Did you hear our talk about it?

The questioner : Ah

The Shaykh : No, no. Did you hear our talk about it?

The questioner : Yes, your talk is beautiful.

The Shaykh : We are telling you now: do we interpret what the Salaf (the earliest generations) interpreted? But if one of the Salaf (the earliest generations) interpreted...

The questioner : ... I want to say, I...

The Shaykh : I am answering you.
Al-Halabi : The questioner : He needs to answer you with a general rule.

The questioner : I heard, I understood your talk.

The Shaykh : No, you did not understand. If you had understood my talk, you would not speak. You would not say "Malik interpreted." I will ask you: did the others interpret?

The questioner : But you said...

The Shaykh : I am asking you: did anyone other than Malik interpret?

The questioner : By Allah, there are others who interpreted. Those about whom it is reported that Malik approved became interpreters like Malik, those about whom it is reported from Malik.

The Shaykh : May Allah guide you, may Allah guide you.

The questioner : Al-Tamhid.

The Shaykh : No, he is reminding me that the narration from Malik is not authentic. Now you are attributing it to Al-Tamhid. You have reached Al-Tamhid. He prepared it for you to reach Al-Tamhid.

The questioner : I wish, by Allah, I wish. It is not wrong to tell me about...

The Shaykh : What does the author of Al-Tamhid say in this issue of ta'wil (figurative interpretation)?

The questioner : It is not wrong to benefit from it, because we are not here "even if a goat flew," as he said.The Shaykh : Look, I told him, correct, and what did I tell him? Al-'Abd al-Bari reported in Al-Tamhid...

The questioner : The one who does not come with you, come with him.

The questioner : He is not telling me "even if a goat flew."

The Shaykh : We tell you "even if a goat flew" in its place, but if it did not fly, we do not say it.

The questioner : Since he said the word, I wish he would benefit us. It is not wrong.

The questioner : O Shaykh, the seventh of the missing volumes, I think they did not bring it.

The Shaykh : No, they brought it to us, praise be to Allah.

The questioner : It is not wrong for one to benefit.

The Shaykh : Perhaps this is it.

The questioner : Yes, it is.

The Shaykh : Yes, exactly.

The questioner : It is open to the page, our Shaykh. It is about the miracles (karamah).

The Shaykh : Look, my master, look. It is a hadith: "So he freed her." It is a long hadith. It says in Al-Tamhid...