What is your opinion on increasing the price in exchange for a deferred payment?

The Shaykh : Excuse me, we have not finished with the brother here. What is your opinion on the increased price in exchange for a deferred payment?

The questioner : By Allah, the issue, as is not hidden from you, O Shaykh, is one in which scholars disagree. But what I see as bringing peace to my heart is that this matter is permissible.

The Shaykh : Where does the permissibility come from?

Another questioner : If it were not for a lack of etiquette, I would have objected, but do not say "peace to the heart," because peace to the heart... you say...

The Shaykh : On the contrary.

Another questioner : On the contrary. Do you not say, from a scholarly perspective, that the evidence is supposed to be... because the heart is always with the prohibited, staying away from the prohibited?

The Shaykh : No, the apparent indication is the hadith . It is sufficient. The opinions are mixed, so he consulted his heart and found peace in this. But what is the evidence?

The questioner : The evidence is

The Shaykh : Is every sale lawful?

The questioner : Except for what has been prohibited.

The Shaykh : Fine. What type is this?

The questioner : Permissible, if Allah wills.

The Shaykh : Okay. And the hadiths that you must have read, how did you interpret them?

The questioner : Hadiths?

The Shaykh : Two sales in one sale.

The questioner : Al-Shafi'i mentioned it, as I recall, or al-Tirmidhi.

The Shaykh : Here you are. Why? What did he mention? Give us what you found peace in.

The questioner : If the assembly disperses and the contract of sale is not completed on one of the two sales, then it falls under the hadith. But if the assembly disperses and the transaction is completed on one of the two prices, it is not two sales in one sale. This is al-Tirmidhi's statement.

The Shaykh : This is how its interpretation came in the hadith.

The questioner : Interpretation? Do you mean Sammak's?

The Shaykh : Yes.

The questioner : Yes, it contradicts Sammak's interpretation. Yes.

The Shaykh : No problem.

The questioner : He is one of the narrators of the hadith. I mean, if it were a Companion, it might be...

Another questioner : You did not mean that.

The Shaykh : I meant that. Then I mean something else. Slowly, slowly, regarding the Turk's statement... The narrator's opinion has value and consideration, or does it not have value and consideration?

The questioner : If it is a Companion, there is no doubt that the Companion's interpretation takes precedence over the interpretation of others. As for the narrators, some scholars even prioritize the statement of a non-Companion narrator over the statement of a Companion narrator, sometimes, if it appears to them that the narrator's statement is contrary to the truth, meaning that the narrator's statement is contrary to the truth.

The Shaykh : If it appears... if it appears with proof, yes. But if we go down from the opinion of a Companion to the opinion of a Tabi'i who was a narrator of the hadith, do scholars not also say that "the narrator is more knowledgeable about his narration than others"?

The questioner : Yes, this is a well-known statement, meaning...

The Shaykh : Okay. If you are mentioning the narration of Sammak, who narrated from Abdullah ibn Mas'ud, who said, "The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) prohibited two sales in one sale." It was said to Sammak, the narrator of the hadith, "What are two sales in one sale?" He said, "That you say, 'I sell this to you for such-and-such in cash, and for such-and-such on credit.'" Yes, this refutes your interpretation. And this is how scholars of hadith, such as al-Nasa'i and Ibn al-Athir in al-Nihayah, and others, proceeded. Then there is the other hadith that the brother mentioned earlier or referred to, which is . The hadith gives us a benefit in addition to the first hadith, the hadith of Ibn Mas'ud. The hadith of Ibn Mas'ud explicitly states the prohibition.

The questioner : The hadith of Ibn Abbas.

The Shaykh : No, Ibn Mas'ud.

The questioner : From Sammak, from Ikrimah, from Ibn Abbas.

The Shaykh : No. Abdullah ibn Mas'ud.

The questioner : From Abdullah ibn Mas'ud.

The Shaykh : Yes, the hadith of Ibn Mas'ud prohibiting two sales in one sale. The hadith of Abu Hurayrah . So the Messenger (peace be upon him) in the hadith of Abu Hurayrah makes the increase one of the types of riba. According to the opinion you mentioned, which is known to some scholars, when a merchant offers a specific commodity at two prices, saying, "This is registered at one hundred in cash, and one hundred and ten on installment," if he settles for one hundred, there is nothing wrong. And if he settles for one hundred and ten, there is also nothing wrong. Is this what you want?

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh : Okay. Does this reasoning mean that the prohibition is due to ignorance? Will the sale be realized on the increased price for the deferred payment, or on the cash price? If he settles on one of the two prices, the ignorance is removed. Where did this ignorance come from? Is there a text on it, or is it opinion and deduction?

The questioner : It is the governing principle in the Shari'ah. There is prohibition in sales involving gharar (excessive uncertainty). There is prohibition in that.

The Shaykh : This is a deviation, Professor.

The questioner : How?

The Shaykh : I am asking where this reasoning came from.

Another questioner : By text or by ijtihad (independent legal reasoning)?

The questioner : No. By ijtihad, of course.

Another questioner : And the hadith of "awakhsama" or riba, is it by text or by ijtihad?

The questioner : The hadith of "awakhsama" or riba. By Allah, I do not remember the discussion on directing the hadith right now.

Another questioner : May Allah have mercy on you. I say, leave the direction of the hadith. As for "awakhsama" or riba, is this cause by text or by ijtihad?

The questioner : You have hadiths that are also added to this hadith in order to understand the subject as a whole.

Another questioner : Take me gently. The hadith . The word riba mentioned in the hadith, is this cause by ijtihad or by text?

The questioner : No. By text.

Another questioner : Oh, praise be to you. And what did you say? You said ijtihad, but I wanted to make it easy.The Shaykh : A little.

The Shaykh : May Allah reward you with good.

The questioner : Okay. If a merchant is found selling on credit now, O Shaykh?

The Shaykh : ... You accused me of being tired, meaning...

The questioner : If a merchant is found who sells only on credit and sells at a higher price.

Another questioner : He saysThe Shaykh : We have finished the first point. How did you prioritize ijtihad over the text?

The questioner : No. I did not prioritize ijtihad over the text, if Allah wills. But I say that I am directing the issue as a whole, or directing the hadith. I do not recall anything currently. I mean, something from the side of disagreement. And what I mentioned is what I recall currently.

The Shaykh : Okay. The question is, we do not want to restrict ourselves. Which of the two sales is better in the Shari'ah? To sell in cash, or on installment at the cash price, or at the increased price?

The questioner : Which is better? The lender, without doubt, is rewarded.

The Shaykh : Okay. Is this direction present today on the tongues of scholars, let alone on the tongues of merchants?

The questioner : No. Except for the rare. The times in this era, or I say the conditions in this era, are purely material.

The Shaykh : Purely material. So what is the duty of scholars then? That they prioritize the scale of material things over spiritual things, as they say?

The questioner : Directing people to the recommended (mustahabb) is a good thing.

Another questioner : And it is what brings peace to the hearts.

The questioner : But obliging people to do the recommended is another matter.

Another questioner : Yes, that is correct.

The questioner : Obliging people to do the recommended is another matter.

Another questioner : I mean, it is what brings peace to the hearts.

Another questioner : Urban development. We have urban development here to serve the poor. The poor person is given a house for about ten thousand, on installment. In cash, it is five thousand. A poor person says, "O people of good, they say helping the poor through urban development." So when I am poor, they sell it to me for ten, and the rich person is given it for five. How is this? How was this help? Where did this help come from?

The Shaykh : Yes, by Allah, Allahu Akbar.
Abu Layla : O Shaykh, it is more correct to say "urban trapping."

The Shaykh : Urban trapping.

The questioner : O Shaykh. We said, the merchant who sells at one price on credit, which is higher than the market price. Can he be objected to?

The Shaykh : Double it.

The questioner : How?

The Shaykh : Double it, double it.

The questioner : Meaning?

The Shaykh : Come on, you are a son of the country. Please.

Another questioner : So...

The questioner : No, other... This is a question, meaning this is a question.

The Shaykh : We said to some of our brothers, "We were informed, and you are a son of the country. Now, correct us. We were informed that one of the big merchants in your area, when he was informed that it is not permissible for one to sell at two prices, but only at one price, he was selling, for example, a car worth twenty thousand on installment for twenty-two thousand or twenty-five thousand. When he heard, and it appears he heard it, meaning incompletely, that it is not permissible to sell at two prices, he made the price for everyone twenty-two thousand instead of twenty thousand. So I said, before, he was oppressing half the customers. Now, he is oppressing all the customers, on the basis of maintaining the single price. O brother, reverse it. Pour it. Reverse it. Pour it."

Another questioner : Like some real-life examples, and one does not cite reality as a text or as evidence that it is the cause of riba. I ruled in a case where cars were sold for forty to sixty thousand over a year. After six months, the young man realized that this is not permissible, or according to the school of thought that does not permit it. So when we ruled, he said, "The matter is resolved for you: six months, we added twenty thousand over two years, twenty thousand divided by twelve equals so much per month, one thousand five hundred. One thousand five hundred times six months, you will pay this... for the six months. And I was sitting, and there is no doubt about this, that you are adding to my period. They said, 'Now we don't have it after two months.' He said, 'It is not possible. Either you pay now, or after two months, I will add half a month or so.' Another matter: I attended a gathering of people who buy and sell land. They put up a large sign for cash and installment payments. He sat down and said, 'The price is so much.' He said, 'Cash or installment?' He said, 'Cash.' He said, 'Installment.' He said, 'Zayd, twelve percent.' He said to me, while I was sitting, 'Zayd, twelve percent. You want a year? A year and a half? Add two years? Do not doubt me, as long as...'The Shaykh : May Allah keep him busy with His obedience. Do not doubt me in these cases that the cause of riba in them is ambiguity. Here there is no ambiguity and no riba.

The questioner : There is no ambiguity, but is the one who receives his money immediately the same as the one who receives his money after ten years?

Another questioner : That was not our question. May Allah reward you. The question now is: do you see in these examples and illustrations that they are a cause of riba, or is it the ambiguity they mention, the lack of price stability? What do you see now in these examples that are advertised in the reality of Muslims? Is it ambiguity?

The questioner : May Allah reward you. The two sales in one sale, from the perspective of two sales in one sale, is that the two sales here... the session ended with...

Another questioner : My dear friend, we understood this. Now we know... with...The Shaykh : When he says so and so, now you said that you agree with the scholars that the cause is ambiguity. In fact, they say it is the lack of price stability. We agreed with you that some people said this, and you see it. Good. You agreed that the hadith explicitly mentions the cause of riba.

The Shaykh : He answered, "My brother, I am not recalling the topic."

Another questioner : These real-life examples mean they indicate that it is not ambiguity. Why? Because he is in his house and has the newspaper in his hand, and he says the price is so much and the price is so much. What ambiguity is there in the matter? There is no ambiguity.

The questioner : And therefore it did not enter into the hadith. It did not enter into the hadith prohibiting the two sales. That is, it did not enter into the hadith forbidding two sales in one sale.

The Shaykh : But it entered into the second hadith.

The questioner : In any case, I do not remember now an explanation that might be in another context for the hadith. I am not recalling the speech about it.

The Shaykh : But you missed opening an argument for you. He said that here the money is delayed, and I remember you clinging to such an opportunity. It is...

Another questioner : ... it needs some review of these texts, otherwise...

The Shaykh : No. My intention is, take from his speech: what is the argument of the riba practitioners when he lends one hundred dinars in exchange for one hundred and ten?

The questioner : But this is a merchant, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh : No, no, I am asking what is his argument?

Another questioner : Because the money is delayed.

The questioner : But the lender does not have...

The Shaykh : That is, you, may Allah reward you, mentioned a statement earlier that should not be passed over without stopping at it. You said, "He has rendered his money useless."

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh : This is the argument of the riba practitioners.

The questioner : That is, now, is the sale on credit, O Shaykh, not the opposite of the forward sale (salam)?

The Shaykh : And if it is the opposite, is the opposite measured by the opposite?

The questioner : With the evidence.

The Shaykh : He said, he said, he deviates. If it is the opposite, is the opposite measured by the opposite? We have a detailed answer to this that confirms that this analogy is not permissible. The forward sale (salam), in many cases, where the cash is advanced, does not guarantee that it will reach the principal. Is that correct or not?

The questioner : How, O Shaykh? Repeat.

The Shaykh : The one who advances cash to the farmer, on the condition that he advances it to him in the season, for example, wheat or barley, etc., in many cases may not reach the price he paid, his principal. Is that clear?

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : As for the one who sells on installment, he guarantees his principal, he guarantees the lawful profit, and he guarantees the unlawful profit. How is it valid to analogize this to that?

Another questioner : And Ibn Taymiyyah (may Allah have mercy on him) mentioned in this chapter that Ibn Abbas was asked about this, and 'Umar ibn 'Abd al-'Aziz, and he said, "It is pure riba." Do you know the authenticity of this report?

The Shaykh : No. And if it were authentic, it would be a new weapon in the matter.

Another questioner : I came across this in the fatwas, in the book of sales. It mentioned that Ibn al-Qayyim permits this sale. When I read the speech, it said, "He was asked about 'Umar ibn 'Abd al-'Aziz and Ibn Abbas, and so on, and he said, 'It is pure riba.'"

The Shaykh : Good... page.