Is there a difference between a narrator unknown by identity and a narrator unknown by status in terms of the outcome?

The Shaykh : Bring it so we can see.

The questioner : This issue, meaning the last two questions, concerns the difference between a narrator unknown by identity and a narrator unknown by status. It is not your practice, as far as we know, to pay attention to the obscurity of identity or the obscurity of status in weakening a hadith, let alone in strengthening it!

The Shaykh: All right.

The questioner : So, a hasan li-ghayrihi, if two narrators come to us who are unknown, each being unknown by identity or unknown by status, or one is such and the other is such, according to the rule, naturally differing in rank, then this is a shaykh who strengthens it in our knowledge of your method. Thus, distinguishing between a narrator unknown by identity and a narrator unknown by status in this matter is a purely terminological distinction and has no relation to the outcome in the science of hadith.

The Shaykh : Excuse me, but first, what do you mean by saying "strengthens"?

The questioner : I mean it becomes hasan li-ghayrihi.

The Shaykh : You mean the text, meaning.

The questioner : Ah, the text, of course. My point is about the text.

The Shaykh : The discussion now is about Abu al-Hasan's question.

The questioner : About the narrator.

The Shaykh : About the narrator.

The questioner : Correct, but I mean regarding the outcome, the outcome of the research, the outcome of the research on the narrator is, meaning, its elevation or its remaining, its elevation to the level of being relied upon, or the corroborating narrations, or something similar. And this is the same for a narrator unknown by identity and a narrator unknown by status in your view, our Shaykh.

The Shaykh : No, they are not the same.

The questioner : How, my teacher?

The Shaykh : Because you know the status of the one unknown by status.

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh : His status is stronger than that of the one unknown by identity.

The questioner : Correct.

The Shaykh : Well, if a hadith comes to us, for example, from two narrators unknown by identity, we may not be reassured by their hadith as we are reassured by a hadith that comes to us from two narrators unknown by status.The questioner : Correct.

The Shaykh : So, they are not the same.

The questioner : But in terms of the outcome, our Shaykh, you make it hasan, except if, as you always say, except if there is a specific anomaly in the text or something that arises in the mind, then this strengthens the rejection because he is unknown by status. But if the text is, for example, sound and contains nothing that the critic would find objectionable, and we see two narrators unknown by identity, then what I know of your practice, and perhaps our brother Abu al-Hasan and the brother Abu 'Ubaydah will help us with that, is that you proceed with this and strengthen it. And our Shaykh, of course, the degree of memorization varies.

The Shaykh : Yes, yes, but my brother, the difference between a narrator unknown by identity and a narrator unknown by status still... still has its outcome, it has its outcome. Let us say now, two narrators unknown by identity, it is possible that we can elevate their hadith to the rank of hasan, but if they are unknown by status, it is possible that we can elevate their hadith to the rank of sahih. So the difference still exists between a narrator unknown by identity and a narrator unknown by status, whether in terms of the strength of the hadith of the first type and the strength of the hadith of the second type, or in terms of the number of strengtheners, many or few. The more numerous the narrators unknown by identity, the more reassured we are of the validity of the hadith. But as for the one unknown by status, it does not harm us if the number is small. So what is the case with the one unknown by identity? In summary, there is still a difference between each of the narrator unknown by identity and the narrator unknown by status in terms of the outcome.

The questioner : Beautiful. May Allah reward you with good, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh : And you, others. Please, go ahead.

The questioner : May Allah reward you.