Hasan read to me a statement by the Shaykh al-Islam in which he said: "And that the created things have no beginning." Then the Shaykh commented on this phrase.
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Al-Halabi: Shall I read the phrase from the Shaykh al-Islam?
The Shaykh : Please proceed.
Al-Halabi: Perhaps it will clarify what our brother Murad intends to say. The Shaykh (may Allah have mercy on him) says: "And this is the issue of the creation of the universe and its eternity. No one among the children of Adam can establish evidence for the eternity of the celestial spheres in the first place. And all that they have mentioned does not contain anything that indicates the eternity of anything from the universe with certainty. Their limit is only to indicate the eternity of the type of action — the eternity of the type of action, meaning the action of Allah, i.e., not the action that is the acted-upon — and their limit is to indicate the eternity of the type of action and that the Actor has always been an Actor, and that the created things have no beginning, and the like of that from ... ".
The Shaykh : And what does "the created things have no beginning" mean? This is what we are telling you.
Al-Halabi: Because it is connected to the type of action.
The Shaykh : They have no beginning. There is no created thing except that before it was a created thing. There is no created thing except that before it was a created thing. There is no created thing except that before it was a created thing. And every created thing is preceded by non-existence.
Fawq: ... created things with no beginning in the attributes of Allah.
Al-Halabi: No, he is narrating from ...
The Shaykh : Here is the problem, the confusion between connecting the attribute to the attributed.
Al-Halabi: We have seen this often in the words of the Shaykh al-Islam; he connects between them, he distinguishes between the action, the Actor, and the acted-upon.
The Shaykh : This is correct and true, otherwise the issue would end up as incarnation (hulul), but this does not mean that there is a created thing that was not preceded by non-existence.
Al-Halabi: Okay, shall we continue, our Shaykh?
The Shaykh : Please proceed.
Al-Halabi: He says: "And that the created things have no beginning, and the like of that from what does not indicate the eternity of anything specific from the universe. And this does not contradict any of the texts of the Prophets, rather it agrees with them. As for the mass-transmitted texts from the Prophets that Allah created the heavens and the earth and what is between them in six days, and that Allah is the Creator of everything, and that everything other than Him is a created thing that came into existence after it was not"
The Shaykh : Yes.
Al-Halabi: "So no one can mention a rational proof that contradicts this. And this has been elaborated in other places. And this issue of the creation of the universe is the greatest point where the philosophers returned, which the theologians (mutakallimun) were unable to resolve. It does not contain anything that indicates the eternity of anything from the universe in the first place. For this reason, what the people established as evidence, that every acted-upon is a created thing that came into existence after it was not, and that everything other than Allah is an acted-upon, so it is a created thing, does not contradict that. Rather, what contradicts that is the original position of the Jahmiyyah and the Mu'tazilah, where they said that Allah was and did not speak with anything, and did not do anything, rather speech and action were impossible for Him, not within His power in eternity, not within His power in eternity ... " .
The Shaykh : But, we say it is within His power.
Al-Halabi: Ah, their saying means that he affirms it.
The Shaykh : No problem, my brother, what do we want with the Jahmiyyah? Now you understand that he explicitly states that every created thing is preceded by non-existence?
The questioner : Shaykh, yes.
The Shaykh : Okay, then does this statement align with your understanding that he says the Throne is the first created thing?
Fawq: No, no, it means you need to reconcile them.
The Shaykh : Repeat the phrase, repeat the phrase.
Al-Halabi: "And all that they have mentioned does not contain anything that indicates the eternity of anything specific from the universe in the first place. Their limit is only to indicate the eternity of the type of action and that the Actor has always been an Actor, and that the created things have no beginning, and the like of that from what does not indicate the eternity of anything specific from the universe. And this does not contradict any of the texts of the Prophets, rather it agrees with them" .
The Shaykh : Fine.
Fawq: The created things have no beginning, so this is not connected to Allah, but to the created thing.
The Shaykh : The created things.
Fawq: Created things with no beginning, so that Allah (Glorified and Exalted is He) is a Creator constantly.
The Shaykh : Yes, exactly.
Fawq: But the strange thing is that ...
The Shaykh : You should be at peace with your opponent and tell him ...
The questioner : A misguiding man who does not want the truth.
The Shaykh : Understood, but so that he does not have an argument that Ibn Taymiyyah says that every created thing is preceded by non-existence, what do you have against him? He speaks in words that you do not understand, and perhaps we share with you that we do not understand them, but this does not necessitate declaring him a disbeliever, given his explicit statement that there is no created thing except that it is preceded by non-existence. But he conceives of the created things as having no beginning; this conception is beyond our ability to grasp.
The Shaykh : Please proceed.
Al-Halabi: Perhaps it will clarify what our brother Murad intends to say. The Shaykh (may Allah have mercy on him) says: "And this is the issue of the creation of the universe and its eternity. No one among the children of Adam can establish evidence for the eternity of the celestial spheres in the first place. And all that they have mentioned does not contain anything that indicates the eternity of anything from the universe with certainty. Their limit is only to indicate the eternity of the type of action — the eternity of the type of action, meaning the action of Allah, i.e., not the action that is the acted-upon — and their limit is to indicate the eternity of the type of action and that the Actor has always been an Actor, and that the created things have no beginning, and the like of that from ... ".
The Shaykh : And what does "the created things have no beginning" mean? This is what we are telling you.
Al-Halabi: Because it is connected to the type of action.
The Shaykh : They have no beginning. There is no created thing except that before it was a created thing. There is no created thing except that before it was a created thing. There is no created thing except that before it was a created thing. And every created thing is preceded by non-existence.
Fawq: ... created things with no beginning in the attributes of Allah.
Al-Halabi: No, he is narrating from ...
The Shaykh : Here is the problem, the confusion between connecting the attribute to the attributed.
Al-Halabi: We have seen this often in the words of the Shaykh al-Islam; he connects between them, he distinguishes between the action, the Actor, and the acted-upon.
The Shaykh : This is correct and true, otherwise the issue would end up as incarnation (hulul), but this does not mean that there is a created thing that was not preceded by non-existence.
Al-Halabi: Okay, shall we continue, our Shaykh?
The Shaykh : Please proceed.
Al-Halabi: He says: "And that the created things have no beginning, and the like of that from what does not indicate the eternity of anything specific from the universe. And this does not contradict any of the texts of the Prophets, rather it agrees with them. As for the mass-transmitted texts from the Prophets that Allah created the heavens and the earth and what is between them in six days, and that Allah is the Creator of everything, and that everything other than Him is a created thing that came into existence after it was not"
The Shaykh : Yes.
Al-Halabi: "So no one can mention a rational proof that contradicts this. And this has been elaborated in other places. And this issue of the creation of the universe is the greatest point where the philosophers returned, which the theologians (mutakallimun) were unable to resolve. It does not contain anything that indicates the eternity of anything from the universe in the first place. For this reason, what the people established as evidence, that every acted-upon is a created thing that came into existence after it was not, and that everything other than Allah is an acted-upon, so it is a created thing, does not contradict that. Rather, what contradicts that is the original position of the Jahmiyyah and the Mu'tazilah, where they said that Allah was and did not speak with anything, and did not do anything, rather speech and action were impossible for Him, not within His power in eternity, not within His power in eternity ... " .
The Shaykh : But, we say it is within His power.
Al-Halabi: Ah, their saying means that he affirms it.
The Shaykh : No problem, my brother, what do we want with the Jahmiyyah? Now you understand that he explicitly states that every created thing is preceded by non-existence?
The questioner : Shaykh, yes.
The Shaykh : Okay, then does this statement align with your understanding that he says the Throne is the first created thing?
Fawq: No, no, it means you need to reconcile them.
The Shaykh : Repeat the phrase, repeat the phrase.
Al-Halabi: "And all that they have mentioned does not contain anything that indicates the eternity of anything specific from the universe in the first place. Their limit is only to indicate the eternity of the type of action and that the Actor has always been an Actor, and that the created things have no beginning, and the like of that from what does not indicate the eternity of anything specific from the universe. And this does not contradict any of the texts of the Prophets, rather it agrees with them" .
The Shaykh : Fine.
Fawq: The created things have no beginning, so this is not connected to Allah, but to the created thing.
The Shaykh : The created things.
Fawq: Created things with no beginning, so that Allah (Glorified and Exalted is He) is a Creator constantly.
The Shaykh : Yes, exactly.
Fawq: But the strange thing is that ...
The Shaykh : You should be at peace with your opponent and tell him ...
The questioner : A misguiding man who does not want the truth.
The Shaykh : Understood, but so that he does not have an argument that Ibn Taymiyyah says that every created thing is preceded by non-existence, what do you have against him? He speaks in words that you do not understand, and perhaps we share with you that we do not understand them, but this does not necessitate declaring him a disbeliever, given his explicit statement that there is no created thing except that it is preceded by non-existence. But he conceives of the created things as having no beginning; this conception is beyond our ability to grasp.