You cited the hadith (The first thing Allah created was the Pen) as evidence that events have a beginning. Does it follow that created things have a beginning and that events have a beginning?
Machine translationRead the Arabic original
The questioner : I said in *Al-Silsilah al-Sahihah* that I mentioned the hadith indicating that the first created thing was the Pen, and I used it as evidence that events have a beginning. Does it follow that if created things have a beginning, then events have a beginning? May Allah reward you with good.
The Shaykh : What is the difference between created things and events? Every created thing is an event, and every event is a created thing. I do not know what he wants.
The questioner : O Shaykh, I am the one who asked the question.
The Shaykh : Please proceed.
The questioner : I mean the attributes of Allah. The attributes of Allah occur, such as speech, for example. Allah speaks whenever He wills. So I mean that speech, in terms of its type, is eternal, but in terms of its individual instances, it is an event. This is what I intended. Do events fall under this?
The Shaykh : But the speech of Allah is one of His attributes. Are created things the same?
The questioner : No.
The Shaykh : So they differ completely.
The questioner : Regarding this issue, we say that the type of events does not have a beginning.
The Shaykh : And his saying (peace and blessings be upon him):Jami` at-Tirmidhi 3319Sahih (Darussalam)?
The questioner : No, I mean the type, not... If we conceptualize it this way: a Creator, creation, and the created, this issue may be confusing for many people. So we say that creation is eternal, in that it is the attribute of creation.
The Shaykh : Creation is the attribute of the Creator, and it is eternal.
The questioner : Yes, and the Creator is Allah Himself (Glorified and Exalted is He).
The Shaykh : Without a doubt.
The questioner : And the created thing is the event.
The Shaykh : Fine.
The questioner : And the Pen is considered the first of the created things.
The Shaykh : Ah.
The questioner : What about the report that the Throne is the first of the created things?
The Shaykh : There is no basis for this statement. This is an opinion and is not something that came from the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him).
The questioner : They cited the hadith:Sahih al-Bukhari 4684.
The Shaykh : No problem, I know what they cited as evidence. But you said: What about the report that the Throne is the first created thing? I said: There is no basis for this statement.
And there is a great difference between deriving a ruling, which may be correct or incorrect,
and a ruling that the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) explicitly stated.
So I told you: This has no basis. I mean: There is no hadith in which the Messenger said that the Pen is the first created thing, and there is no hadith in which he said that the Throne is the first created thing. But the fact that he (peace and blessings be upon him) said:Sahih al-Bukhari 4684 does not clarify that nothing was created before the water upon which his Throne was. So if this is not clarified in this hadith, and the hadith of the Pen is explicit that it is the first created thing, then there is nothing to make us leave the explicit text for the text that allows for the meaning of this authentic hadith regarding something other than the Pen.
So in any case, whether the Pen is the first created thing or the water upon which the Throne was, there is a point of agreement among all those who differ in specifying the first created thing: that there is a first created thing. Is this correct or not?
The questioner : Yes, I do.
The Shaykh : The disagreement is only in specifying and identifying it. But there is no disagreement among those who differed, and this is one of the wonders: Ibn Taymiyyah himself narrated this disagreement: that the scholars differed on the first created thing—whether it is the Throne, whether it is the Pen, whether it is the water, and so on. So there is something agreed upon, which is that there is a first created thing. There is something disagreed upon, which is what this first of the created things is. It was said this and that, and the explicit statement, as we mentioned earlier, is:Jami` at-Tirmidhi 3319Sahih (Darussalam).
The Shaykh : What is the difference between created things and events? Every created thing is an event, and every event is a created thing. I do not know what he wants.
The questioner : O Shaykh, I am the one who asked the question.
The Shaykh : Please proceed.
The questioner : I mean the attributes of Allah. The attributes of Allah occur, such as speech, for example. Allah speaks whenever He wills. So I mean that speech, in terms of its type, is eternal, but in terms of its individual instances, it is an event. This is what I intended. Do events fall under this?
The Shaykh : But the speech of Allah is one of His attributes. Are created things the same?
The questioner : No.
The Shaykh : So they differ completely.
The questioner : Regarding this issue, we say that the type of events does not have a beginning.
The Shaykh : And his saying (peace and blessings be upon him):
the first of what Allah created was the Pen
أول ما خلق الله القلمThe questioner : No, I mean the type, not... If we conceptualize it this way: a Creator, creation, and the created, this issue may be confusing for many people. So we say that creation is eternal, in that it is the attribute of creation.
The Shaykh : Creation is the attribute of the Creator, and it is eternal.
The questioner : Yes, and the Creator is Allah Himself (Glorified and Exalted is He).
The Shaykh : Without a doubt.
The questioner : And the created thing is the event.
The Shaykh : Fine.
The questioner : And the Pen is considered the first of the created things.
The Shaykh : Ah.
The questioner : What about the report that the Throne is the first of the created things?
The Shaykh : There is no basis for this statement. This is an opinion and is not something that came from the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him).
The questioner : They cited the hadith:
His Throne was over the water
وكان عرشه على الماءThe Shaykh : No problem, I know what they cited as evidence. But you said: What about the report that the Throne is the first created thing? I said: There is no basis for this statement.
And there is a great difference between deriving a ruling, which may be correct or incorrect,
and a ruling that the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) explicitly stated.
So I told you: This has no basis. I mean: There is no hadith in which the Messenger said that the Pen is the first created thing, and there is no hadith in which he said that the Throne is the first created thing. But the fact that he (peace and blessings be upon him) said:
His Throne was over the water
وكان عرشه على الماءSo in any case, whether the Pen is the first created thing or the water upon which the Throne was, there is a point of agreement among all those who differ in specifying the first created thing: that there is a first created thing. Is this correct or not?
The questioner : Yes, I do.
The Shaykh : The disagreement is only in specifying and identifying it. But there is no disagreement among those who differed, and this is one of the wonders: Ibn Taymiyyah himself narrated this disagreement: that the scholars differed on the first created thing—whether it is the Throne, whether it is the Pen, whether it is the water, and so on. So there is something agreed upon, which is that there is a first created thing. There is something disagreed upon, which is what this first of the created things is. It was said this and that, and the explicit statement, as we mentioned earlier, is: