Our Shaykh, we work in some oil companies, and the company has implemented an investment and savings scheme. The method of this savings is that any employee who wishes to participate, then

The questioner : The question was asked by your brother Ali over the phone, but some clarification is needed because a large number of employees in the company where I work are waiting for the answer. This system is used by many companies, especially in the Gulf countries, even in this country. I work for an oil company.

The Shaykh : Oil.

The questioner : Yes, the company has several benefits or systems that provide free medical treatment for the employee, furnished housing for the employee, and so on. The company decided to establish a savings and investment system, which it named as such, for its employees. The system, by its name, consists of two systems: an investment system based on interest-bearing systems directly linked to banks, and this is not the subject of the inquiry.

The Shaykh : Good.

The questioner : So the ruling on this is clear.

The Shaykh : Good.

The questioner : As for the second system, it is a savings and provision system based on the employee's desire; if he wants to participate or not, he has the choice.

The Shaykh : Good.

The questioner : It is based on deducting a percentage of his monthly salary, from one to ten percent.

The Shaykh : From one to?

The questioner : From one to ten percent of his salary, of his salary.

The Shaykh : Yes.

The questioner : The company deducts it, and it remains in the company's capital. That is, it does not give it to the one who wants to participate, to the one who wishes, but saves it for the employee. So every employee has an account in the accounting department showing how much he has saved each month. And here there are two scenarios for benefiting from these amounts.

The Shaykh : Excuse me, you are here in this scenario, the one before the second.

The questioner : No, we are in the second scenario, which is the savings scenario. The first scenario, which is the investment linked to banks, is not the subject of the inquiry.

The Shaykh : Yes.

The questioner : So its ruling is clear.

The Shaykh : Yes.

The questioner : The question is about the second scenario, the savings system from which a portion is taken from the employee's salary.

The Shaykh : Which is from one to ten.

The questioner : Yes, let's say ten percent.

The Shaykh : Yes.

The questioner : Because the original amount is ten percent and it is accumulated for him. Now, for the employee to benefit from these saved funds, no participating employee is allowed to benefit from his savings except upon the end of his service, whether by resignation or dismissal. This is one scenario. The second scenario allows him to withdraw a portion of his savings, only fifty percent, at any time he wishes while he is still in his position, without resignation or dismissal. And here is a note related to this savings: whether the employee withdraws from his savings while in his position, or resigns, or is dismissed, the company gives him its bonus, an addition to the amount of his savings, by half a person. And this bonus is not linked to the number of years of his participation in the system, because he may have ten years of experience in the company but only participated five years after his employment.

The Shaykh : Excuse me, repeat, what is it not?

The questioner : It is not linked to the number of years of his participation in the savings system, but it is linked to the number of years of his experience in the company. Let's suppose, of course, this bonus is graduated. One year of experience in the company, he takes his savings plus five percent. This company's bonus is five percent. For example, after five years of experience in the company, he takes the amount he saved plus fifty percent of the amount he saved. After fourteen years of experience in the company, if he resigns or is dismissed, he takes one hundred percent relative to his savings. Let's suppose a person was employed this year and participated from the beginning of his employment. After fourteen years, if he saved one hundred thousand, he takes another one hundred thousand. And another person was employed with him on the same day, but he participated in the last year, the fourteenth year, and saved two thousand, he takes two thousand. Both take the same percentage, one hundred percent. Therefore, it is not linked to the years of participation in the system, but it is linked to the years of his experience in the company. Now, the question is: what is the ruling on participating in this system? And the second question is: what is the ruling?

The Shaykh : Before the second question, let's stick to the first. Okay, this that is given to this employee has no relation to the money saved for him that the company utilized and benefited from.

The questioner : The system is established with fixed percentages based on the number of years of his experience.

The Shaykh : No, I do not hope that you will repeat it to me.

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh : But I hope that the answer will be clear after understanding the question. This man who has been an employee for twenty years and had one to ten percent saved for him, as I said, the one who had one percent saved for him will be rewarded less than the one who had ten percent saved for him. Okay, where does the company take this bonus from?

The questioner : From its capital.

The Shaykh : From its capital?

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh : Okay, what did the company do with these savings from Zayd, Bakr, and 'Umar? Did it put them in a trust fund, or did it utilize them and trade with them in one way or another? Of course, this money was not put in a trust fund.

The questioner : As I believe, it is also not put in a trust fund because the company is headquartered in Japan.

The Shaykh : So, these employees, are these savings based on the number of employees, whether many or few? There will be a very large sum of money with the company, or a large sum that is not very large. And this money, as far as I can see, will be added to its capital. And we know, as we said earlier regarding the paper our brother asked about earlier, that this paper has a connection with banks. So if there is an Islamic bank in name and reality, it is looked at to see if there is anything that contradicts the Shari'ah or not. Now, companies in general, I believe, cannot do commercial work unless they are linked to a bank or international banks, and they do not distinguish, of course, between an Islamic bank and a British bank in terms of dealing, meaning

The questioner : ... .

The Shaykh : Yes.

The questioner : ... .

The Shaykh : This is a given. So the point is, I say that this money that is saved, first, it is assistance in consuming riba. And we mention on this occasion his saying (peace and blessings be upon him) We now want to say that these employees are made to consume the riba of others, but in the end, I fear that they themselves consume the riba. Initially, it is very clear in my mind that they consume the riba like the company, because when the company puts the money in the bank, it and companies like it are the ones on whose shoulders the banks are built. If they withdrew their capital, the banks would go bankrupt, right? So the company and those who cooperate with it consume the riba. Now, we return to see: these employees who save in the company, when they deduct from their salary by their choice, do they not consume the riba? Here is a question.

Another questioner : ... .

The Shaykh : No, we say, as I said, participants, one percent, one, two, like that, up to ten. We are talking about these people.

The questioner : ... in the employee, the employee saves, meaning when he leaves the company after so many years, he finds a saved amount for him, which helps him. So the employee's goal is to find a saved amount for him at the end of his service. Then this company comes and says this is an additional percentage for you. This is just a clarification, meaning nothing more.

The Shaykh : This clarification has preceded, I think it preceded the clarification, but let's add more clarification or illumination. Let's suppose the one who was employed for twenty years had a total of ten thousand saved for him. If he takes these ten thousand as they are, the matter of the violation is that he helped the company to deal with his ten thousand. So here is what I said earlier. But the question that I have not yet taken clearly, which may be unclear or clear but I did not understand, is whether he takes only the ten thousand or takes an addition to it.

The questioner : He takes ten thousand and an addition to it.

The Shaykh : This is my question. Is this addition not from the category of him consuming riba? Where did this addition come from?

The questioner : The company calls it a bonus from them for them.

The Shaykh : They call it riba (usury or interest) a sale. It is not our concern what they call it. We are setting this aspect aside for now, because the reality today is that the Islamic world is invaded by transactions that come to us from the lands of disbelief. These transactions come to us from the lands of the disbelievers, whom Allah (Mighty and Majestic) described with two distinct attributes, but which, despite their difference, are both a rebuke of these disbelievers. The first attribute is His saying, Blessed and Exalted is He: This is undoubtedly a flaw in them, because they have devoted their efforts to importing their worldly life, but this is at the expense of their Hereafter. Therefore, Allah (Mighty and Majestic) said in the other description of them: Now, let us pause briefly on this issue and move on to another issue with which Muslims in their lands are afflicted, which is what is called life insurance, property insurance, car insurance, and so on. Let us assume that a believer bought a car and paid the first installment of insurance on it. Then, after a long time, it was completely destroyed. He was compensated for it. Where did this compensation come from? As you said, it came from the company. But the question was deeper than it appears: where did the company get this money from? It is known to everyone that this money came from the subscribers to the insurance company. Let us assume there are, for example, a thousand people who subscribe to the insurance company. One or two have accidents, and the rest pay the premiums without having accidents. This money accumulates with the company, and from it they provide the cost of the cars that are destroyed for some of the subscribers. Once we know where this compensation came from in this scenario, we now move on to what we were discussing: where did that compensation or that reward come from? I believe they invested these savings, and as the savings increased, what they call the interest increased, meaning the riba (usury or interest) increased. Consequently, they give them the percentage I mentioned. So, I imagine that unless there is something that has not yet become clear, and I do not think so, that these savers are choosing to consume riba (usury or interest) and be consumed by riba (usury or interest). Therefore, this saving is not permissible. In fact, I say it is sufficient for them, and this is a great sin. I fear that it will cause an earthquake like the earthquake of the ruling on the obligation of migration. This means that it is not permissible for a Muslim to be an employee in a company. Do you see where you are and where you have ended up?

The questioner : Oh, our Shaykh.

The Shaykh : Why? Because there is cooperation. Yes, every subscriber in the company does not consume riba (usury or interest), but these savers consume riba (usury or interest) and are consumed by it. As for the employees in banks, or the employees in companies that deal with banks, these are helpers in these evils. If there is something else, we will hear it, if Allah wills.

The questioner : After this ruling.

The Shaykh : Okay, we are done with the first question.

The questioner : Yes, after this ruling.

The Shaykh : No, wait, yes, please go ahead.