If the imam stands up for a fifth rak'ah in a four-rak'ah prayer, and some of the followers stand up while others sit down, what is the ruling?

The questioner : It is the same thing.

The Shaykh : No, it is not the same thing. And you, Abu 'Abdullah, must not be hasty in issuing fatwas. Because, without a doubt, you are with me. I am now sitting on a chair, or lying on a bed. My name is not "passing by" a person praying in front of me. I did not pass in front of him, even though I am going to show you a picture now where I am praying and this person wanted to pass in front of me. He came here, and I gave him a gentle, light nudge, and he went back. Do you say that he passed in front of me?

The questioner: No.

The Shaykh : So, when does it become "passing in front of me"?

The questioner : When he cuts off the path.

The Shaykh : Ah, so Lady Aisha did not do any of this, correct?

The questioner : Correct.

The Shaykh : May Allah reward you.

The questioner : Okay, a question, please, sir.

The Shaykh: Go ahead.

The questioner : We prayed one of the four-rak'ah prayers. In the last rak'ah, meaning the fourth rak'ah, the imam wanted to stand up for the fifth rak'ah, naturally. He stood up on his own, and those behind him said "Subhan Allah" and remained standing and did not sit down. So, among the followers, some sat down and some stood up with him.

The Shaykh : Yes, exactly.

The questioner : So, whose prayer is valid: those who stood up with him, or those who remained sitting?

The Shaykh : This issue has two sides: one side relates to the imam, and the other side relates to the followers. This is the side you are asking about, and I will speak about it first, then I will turn to the first side relating to the imam, even if you did not ask about it, but we ask about it because Abu Salah is in front of us and it concerns us, so we ask about it. (Laughter)The Shaykh : (May Allah have mercy on him). In any case, those who sat down and did not follow the imam erred, and those who participated with the imam in his error were correct. This is one of the wonders of the issues: those who lagged behind the imam and sat down, and did not follow the imam in his error, erred. And those who stood up with the imam and agreed with him in his error were correct. Why? Because the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) first said: (May Allah have mercy on you). So, by the text of this hadith, it is obligatory for the followers to follow the imam, even if he drops a pillar, which is standing. He did not say at the end of the hadith: , meaning "sit down with him and do not stand up while he is sitting." Why? Because of what he mentioned at the beginning of the hadith: . This is the text of the hadith, and its understanding is that this sitting imam is excused. Because he sat while excused, and did not sit despite his ability to stand. If he had sat while able to stand, he would not be followed, nor would there be any honor in that. Rather, it is the custom of the Muslim, especially when he is an imam, that it is expected of him, and it may not be the case, that he is the most knowledgeable of those present, the best reciter of those present, the most God-fearing of those present, and so on. So, it is expected of him that he does not sit except when compelled, forced by illness, pain, or the like. So, O healthy followers, follow this imam and pray with his sitting. Pray sitting, all of you. This is what he (peace be upon him) said. We return to our main point. The imam stood up for the fourth rak'ah

The questioner : The fifth.

The Shaykh : The fifth, excuse me. And without a doubt, he is excused in this standing, either because he was distracted, or because he made a mistake, or whatever it is. He does not do it to add to the religion. So, in that case, it is obligatory for the followers to do two things. The first thing, perhaps you mentioned it, is that they said to him "Subhan Allah," but he either did not hear, or he heard but was not convinced, or other reasons, and he remained standing. They must follow him, because the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) said in another narration: . So now, the imam is standing and the people are sitting, or as you said, some stood up with him and some lagged behind him. So, this imam must be followed by the ruling of this hadith first, and by the ruling that the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) experienced something similar second. It was reported in Sahih al-Bukhari from the hadith of Abdullah ibn Mas'ud (may Allah be pleased with him): What?

The questioner :

The Shaykh, he (peace be upon him) forgot and prayed five. And from the wisdom of this forgetfulness is the answer to this question. Did you see, Abu 'Abdullah?

The questioner: Yes ... .

The Shaykh : That is it.

The questioner : May Allah reward you with good.

Another questioner : In the same issue, this imam who was told "Subhan Allah," is it not said that the follower does not follow him because he did something in the prayer that is not part of it? Is that not said?

The Shaykh : It is not said. Only what I said earlier is said.

The questioner : Meaning, they said "Subhan Allah" to him and did not...

The Shaykh : Meaning, now we want to return to the imam. We said we have two issues here. He asked about one of them. We told him we would start with the answer to that. The second issue relates to the imam. When this imam was told "Subhan Allah," I indicated earlier that he did not hear, or he heard but was not convinced, and so on. Now we detail the speech. We say this imam heard the tasbih of the followers, and there is a possibility that he did not understand them. He was still forgetting, thinking that this fifth rak'ah, in the opinion of the followers, is the fourth for him. And so he did not return. Is he excused, Professor, or not?

The questioner : This imam is excused.

The Shaykh : Excused, and this can happen.

The questioner : Yes, this is possible.

The questioner : ... .

The Shaykh : I am coming to you in the speech. Your question is done. I told you, you asked about one side and left the second side. This second side remains for me. Yes, so this can be, as we said earlier, that he is still in his forgetfulness. It is possible that the followers, if the veil were lifted for them and they knew, as they claim, that this imam did not return because he is still in forgetfulness that this is the fourth rak'ah he is in, do they follow him or oppose him?

The questioner : They follow him.

The Shaykh : Yes, they follow him. And when there is no way to discover the illusion in his mind, it is assumed in the Muslim that he has good opinion, correct?

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : Okay, this is the first possibility: that the man, when they said "Subhan Allah" to him, did not understand what this tasbih was. He thinks he is in the fourth rak'ah. So, the congregation must follow him because he is in front of them. This is possible, and we have been asked about it often. It is possible that he remembered that this is indeed the fifth rak'ah, but because of his knowledge, or his partial knowledge, or his ignorance, he thought that it is not permissible to return after he has stood up and is engaged in the pillar, which is standing. This is also like the first, meaning he is excused. The important thing is that he is not, as you say, "you are the one," meaning you are saying with your state, warning with your words, "Subhan Allah, this is the fifth rak'ah." It is not a rebuke to them, but he, for one reason or another, proceeded in what he was doing, thinking that this is the fourth rak'ah, or thinking that it is not permissible for him to return to the tashahhud. So, in any case, he is excused. He did not do what he did as a rebuke to the religion, that Allah prescribed four and I want to make it five. This is not conceivable in a Muslim. Therefore, it should be followed. But the correct ruling is that this imam who forgot and stood up from the fourth to the fifth in the four-rak'ah prayer, if he remembers and realizes, he should return immediately to the tashahhud and prostrate two prostrations of forgetfulness, before the salam or after the salam. All of that is permissible in the Sunnah.

The questioner : If it became clear to him and he completed the prayer with knowledge, it became clear to him that it was the fifth, and then he completed it?

The Shaykh : Please, do you want to force me to repeat the previous speech?

The questioner : Just this.

The Shaykh : No problem, no problem. But do you think that this person does this repeatedly? You will say no, you are now...

The Shaykh : He does this what?

The Shaykh : Repeatedly, meaning as a rebuke.

Another questioner : Intentionally, deliberately.

The Shaykh : As a rebuke.

The questioner : He does it out of ignorance.

The Shaykh : I have answered that, may Allah bless you.

The questioner : ... The ignorance here covers his ignorance.

The Shaykh : It does not cover it, nor does anything else here. But the important thing is what happened.

Another questioner : Shaykh, regarding a hadith issue.

The Shaykh : Allow me, if the brother has finished.

The questioner: Yes.