Under the explanation of the preceding hadith (And from him it was narrated that the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) forbade two sales in one sale.
Machine translationRead the Arabic original
The Shaykh : I sell you my house on the condition that you sell me your house. There is no difference between this and that except that we determined the price in the latter but not in the former. Therefore, this must be understood according to the narration of Abu Dawud Sunan Abi Dawud 3461Hasan (Al-Albani) And at that point we ask: what does "the lesser of the two" mean? It means the lesser of the two, or usury or interest. If it is not the lesser of the two, meaning if he has the greater amount, he falls into usury or interest, and if he has the lesser amount, he does not fall into usury or interest. Did you understand now? Good. What is the form of that? For this, there are two forms: The first form is that he says, "I sell you this item for ten cash or twenty on credit." Here, if he takes the ten cash, he does not fall into usury or interest, and if he takes the twenty on credit?
The student: He falls into usury or interest.
The Shaykh : He falls into usury or interest. This is one form. The second form: if someone asks, "Where are the two sales?" we say, one is for ten and one is for twenty. The item sold is one, and the two sales? The two prices. The two sales are the two prices: either ten cash or twenty on credit.
The second form is that what is meant by this is the issue of 'inah, where a person sells an item for a deferred price and then buys it back for less than that in cash. They said, "So these are two transactions in one transaction," meaning in one item sold. So the sale here is understood as the item sold, meaning he made two sales in one sale. So this is the one who has the lesser of the two or usury or interest. The example or form is that he sells an item for a deferred price and then buys it back for less than that in cash. An example of that is: I sold you this donkey for one hundred to be paid in one year, and then I bought it from you for eighty in cash. So here there are two sales, is that not so?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : The first sale is for a deferred price and the second sale is for the present price. We say to the one who sold the donkey: "You now have the lesser of the two or usury or interest." How is it the lesser of the two or usury or interest? It means either you limit yourself to the lesser price, or else you fall into usury or interest. What is the lesser price?
The student: Eighty.
The Shaykh : Eighty, and the greater?
The student: One hundred.
The Shaykh : One hundred. If he takes it for eighty, there is no usury or interest, because he sold it for one hundred and bought it for eighty, and the seller did not take anything but the eighty only. The first buyer, I mean the first buyer, did not take anything but eighty, so he did not take usury or interest. If he takes the greater, he takes usury or interest. Who is the one who takes the greater?
The student : The seller.
The Shaykh : The first seller sold it for one hundred. So if he takes the one hundred, he has taken usury or interest, and if he limits himself to the eighty, he has not taken usury or interest. Good. If he limits himself to the eighty, does anything attach to the buyer?
The student: No.
The Shaykh : Nothing attaches to him because he bought it for one hundred and sold it for one hundred, and everything is finished, or not?
The student: For eighty.
The Shaykh : For eighty, yes.
The student: Shaykh, we did not understand the form.
The Shaykh : Good, let us understand it now. I sold you this camel for one hundred to be paid in one year. The price now is deferred and its amount is one hundred to be paid in one year. Then I came back to you and bought it from you for eighty in cash... Did you return it to me now or not?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : And did it remain for me in your debt?
The student: Twenty.
The Shaykh : Twenty, how?
The student: ...
The Shaykh : Yes, it increased by twenty, because you have one hundred with me, is that not so?
The student: Yes ...
The Shaykh : May Allah bless you. I sold it for one hundred. What do I have from the buyer?
The student: One hundred.
The Shaykh : One hundred, complete?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : I bought it for eighty, and what remains in it? Twenty remains. So it is as if I gave him the eighty for how much?
The student: For one hundred.
The Shaykh : For one hundred, he sells it, and this is usury or interest. If I say to him, "I will now buy it for eighty and I do not want the excess from you," then you have taken the lesser of the two. The first sale was for one hundred and this sale is for eighty. You took the lesser of the two and you are safe from usury or interest. So the meaning of "two sales in one sale" is the issue of 'inah.
I return a second time to explain the hadith. We said the hadith has two meanings: The first meaning is that he sells him the item for eighty cash or for one hundred on credit deferred. He says, "This is two sales in one sale." The two sales are the two prices in one sale in one contract, and this is not permissible. The second form is the issue of 'inah, where he sells him an item for one hundred deferred and then buys it for eighty cash. The eighty is delivered to the buyer who bought it first. The first seller delivers eighty to the first buyer, right?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : Or not?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : Good, and what remains in his debt?
The student: Twenty.
The Shaykh : One hundred, my brother, one hundred, one hundred. Good. Zayd sold this camel to 'Amr for one hundred to be paid in one year. Did you understand now? Zayd sold the camel to 'Amr to be paid in one year. Then Zayd returned. Good, how much is established in 'Amr's debt to Zayd?
The student: One hundred.
The Shaykh : One hundred. Then Zayd returned and bought it from him for eighty cash and delivered the eighty. How much is in 'Amr's debt to Zayd?
The student: One hundred.
The Shaykh : One hundred, one hundred. Zayd has one hundred from 'Amr, right?
The student: One hundred.
The Shaykh : Correct?
The student: ...
The Shaykh : Zayd has one hundred from 'Amr. There is no god but Allah! ...
The student: ...
The Shaykh : Good, let us repeat it a second time. Shall we bring the blackboard or is there no need?
The student: ...
The Shaykh : Good. Zayd sold a donkey to 'Amr for one hundred to be paid in one year. Is it clear now?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : Clear. How much is established for Zayd from 'Amr?
The student: One hundred.
The Shaykh : One hundred... the donkey. Then Zayd returned to 'Amr and said, "Sell it to me for eighty cash, I will give you the eighty." So he sold it for cash for eighty. Now, what is established for Zayd from 'Amr?
The student: One hundred.
The Shaykh : One hundred, like this or not?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : For eighty, because he received eighty, like this or not?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : It is as if this, I mean Zayd, gave 'Amr eighty for one hundred to be paid in one year.
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : Is it clear now?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : Good. The hadith saysSunan Abi Dawud 3461Hasan (Al-Albani) What is the lesser of the two?
The student: ...
The Shaykh : The eighty, the lesser or usury or interest. We say, "You now, O Zayd, if you take one hundred from 'Amr, you fall into usury or interest because you took more than what you gave. You gave him the eighty. And if you take only the eighty when the year is completed, right?
The student: ...
The Shaykh : You are out of usury or interest. So when the year is completed, we say to Zayd, "Come. If you take the one hundred, ah, you fall into usury or interest. And if you take the eighty, you are out of usury or interest. So you have the lesser of the two without usury or interest, or usury or interest if you take the greater."
The student: ...
The Shaykh : Wait, everyone. Let us understand this. There is no question until... Did you understand now or not?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : Good. We now have an explanation of the first term: "He forbade two sales in one sale," right? And we clarified that the explanation that explains the apparent term is not intended, which is that I say, "I will not sell you this item until you buy this item," or "I will not sell you this item until you sell me this item." And we said that these two are not intended, right?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : Good. So the second issue: we said the hadith was explained with two explanations. Either the meaning is, "I sell it to you for eighty cash or for one hundred on credit to be paid in one year." This is one. Another explanation says it is the issue of 'inah. What is the issue of 'inah? That he sells an item for a deferred price and then buys it for less than that in cash. The form of this issue of 'inah is: I sold Zayd a donkey for one hundred to be paid in one year, and then I bought it for eighty cash. Which of the two explanations is more appropriate for matching the hadith?
The student: The second.
The Shaykh : The second, because "two sales in one sale" was clarified by the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) when he said:Sunan Abi Dawud 3461Hasan (Al-Albani) And on this basis, the meaning of "two sales in one sale" is the issue of 'inah. And this is the statement of Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah (may Allah have mercy on him), and it is clear. So we say to the seller now: when the year is completed, either you do not take anything but how much?
The student: Eighty.
The Shaykh : If you do not take anything but the eighty that you gave him, then you are safe from usury or interest. But if you take the one hundred, which is the price of the first sale, then you fall into usury or interest, because the reality of the matter is that you gave him eighty for one hundred and you inserted a donkey between them. For this reason, Ibn 'Abbas (may Allah be pleased with them both) said regarding the issue of 'inah: "It is dirhams for dirhams, and a garment entered between them". A garment means a piece of clothing. We say here in our example: dirhams for dirhams, and a donkey entered between them, right?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : Good. The first form in the second explanation, which is "I sell you this for ten cash or for twenty on credit," what is the reason for including it in the hadith? They said, "Because this is usury or interest, because you increased the price in exchange for the delay. This is one reason. And because this is ambiguity, because the price has not settled. You said, 'For ten cash or for twenty on credit.' So what will the buyer be? Did he commit to ten or did he commit to twenty? And the seller does not know whether what he got was ten or twenty. So the issue contains ambiguity and usury or interest. Did you understand now?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : So it falls under the hadith, but upon reflection, it becomes clear that the hadith is not intended to mean that. First, based on the wording of Abu Dawud, and second, because the seller saying, "I sold this to you for eighty cash or one hundred on credit," contains no riba and no gharar. There is no riba because I did not exchange the eighty dirhams for one hundred; rather, the increase is in the price of the commodity. Just as if I said, "This commodity is worth only eighty, but I am selling it to you for one hundred," is that permissible or not?
The student: It is permissible.
The Shaykh : ... How much?
The student : Twenty.
The Shaykh : Twenty, and this is not riba. So if I defer this hundred to you ... good. If it is permissible for me to sell what is worth eighty for one hundred cash, why is it not permissible for me to sell what is worth eighty for one hundred?
The student : On credit.
The Shaykh : On credit, a fortiori. Second, their claim that this is ambiguity (jahlah), we say it is not ambiguity, because the buyer cannot leave the place until the price is fixed. And what is the price?
The student : Eighty.
The Shaykh : Eighty or one hundred. It is true that if the price is not fixed, it is ambiguity, but we do not take this from this hadith; we take it from other hadiths, which is the ambiguity of the price. However, if he says, "By Allah, take this; I am selling it to you for eighty cash or one hundred in one year," and he says, "I took it for one hundred in one year."
The student : It became known.
The Shaykh : Huh? There is something. It became known. We did not separate until we fixed the price, and the buyer knew that he owed one hundred and the seller had one hundred, and there is no problem. So it is now clear that the most accurate interpretation of the hadith is the issue of 'inah, because we interpreted the saying of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) with the saying of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him), and there is nothing better than interpreting a hadith with a hadith. Therefore, the scholars agreed that if it is possible to interpret a speaker's words with his own words, that is preferable to interpreting them with the words of someone else, because he knows his own intention best. And this issue never applies except to the issue of 'inah. As for eighty cash and one hundred on credit, there is nothing wrong with it, but on the condition that they do not separate until they fix the price, or he says, for example, "You have the choice of eighty cash or one hundred on credit, and you have the choice for one day or two days." If he takes it on this condition, there is nothing wrong with it.
The questioner : Shaykh?
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : What is the difference between ...
If anyone makes two transactions combined in one bargain, he should have the lesser of the two or it will involve usury.
من باع بيعتين في بيعة فله أوكسهما أو الرّباThe student: He falls into usury or interest.
The Shaykh : He falls into usury or interest. This is one form. The second form: if someone asks, "Where are the two sales?" we say, one is for ten and one is for twenty. The item sold is one, and the two sales? The two prices. The two sales are the two prices: either ten cash or twenty on credit.
The second form is that what is meant by this is the issue of 'inah, where a person sells an item for a deferred price and then buys it back for less than that in cash. They said, "So these are two transactions in one transaction," meaning in one item sold. So the sale here is understood as the item sold, meaning he made two sales in one sale. So this is the one who has the lesser of the two or usury or interest. The example or form is that he sells an item for a deferred price and then buys it back for less than that in cash. An example of that is: I sold you this donkey for one hundred to be paid in one year, and then I bought it from you for eighty in cash. So here there are two sales, is that not so?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : The first sale is for a deferred price and the second sale is for the present price. We say to the one who sold the donkey: "You now have the lesser of the two or usury or interest." How is it the lesser of the two or usury or interest? It means either you limit yourself to the lesser price, or else you fall into usury or interest. What is the lesser price?
The student: Eighty.
The Shaykh : Eighty, and the greater?
The student: One hundred.
The Shaykh : One hundred. If he takes it for eighty, there is no usury or interest, because he sold it for one hundred and bought it for eighty, and the seller did not take anything but the eighty only. The first buyer, I mean the first buyer, did not take anything but eighty, so he did not take usury or interest. If he takes the greater, he takes usury or interest. Who is the one who takes the greater?
The student : The seller.
The Shaykh : The first seller sold it for one hundred. So if he takes the one hundred, he has taken usury or interest, and if he limits himself to the eighty, he has not taken usury or interest. Good. If he limits himself to the eighty, does anything attach to the buyer?
The student: No.
The Shaykh : Nothing attaches to him because he bought it for one hundred and sold it for one hundred, and everything is finished, or not?
The student: For eighty.
The Shaykh : For eighty, yes.
The student: Shaykh, we did not understand the form.
The Shaykh : Good, let us understand it now. I sold you this camel for one hundred to be paid in one year. The price now is deferred and its amount is one hundred to be paid in one year. Then I came back to you and bought it from you for eighty in cash... Did you return it to me now or not?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : And did it remain for me in your debt?
The student: Twenty.
The Shaykh : Twenty, how?
The student: ...
The Shaykh : Yes, it increased by twenty, because you have one hundred with me, is that not so?
The student: Yes ...
The Shaykh : May Allah bless you. I sold it for one hundred. What do I have from the buyer?
The student: One hundred.
The Shaykh : One hundred, complete?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : I bought it for eighty, and what remains in it? Twenty remains. So it is as if I gave him the eighty for how much?
The student: For one hundred.
The Shaykh : For one hundred, he sells it, and this is usury or interest. If I say to him, "I will now buy it for eighty and I do not want the excess from you," then you have taken the lesser of the two. The first sale was for one hundred and this sale is for eighty. You took the lesser of the two and you are safe from usury or interest. So the meaning of "two sales in one sale" is the issue of 'inah.
I return a second time to explain the hadith. We said the hadith has two meanings: The first meaning is that he sells him the item for eighty cash or for one hundred on credit deferred. He says, "This is two sales in one sale." The two sales are the two prices in one sale in one contract, and this is not permissible. The second form is the issue of 'inah, where he sells him an item for one hundred deferred and then buys it for eighty cash. The eighty is delivered to the buyer who bought it first. The first seller delivers eighty to the first buyer, right?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : Or not?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : Good, and what remains in his debt?
The student: Twenty.
The Shaykh : One hundred, my brother, one hundred, one hundred. Good. Zayd sold this camel to 'Amr for one hundred to be paid in one year. Did you understand now? Zayd sold the camel to 'Amr to be paid in one year. Then Zayd returned. Good, how much is established in 'Amr's debt to Zayd?
The student: One hundred.
The Shaykh : One hundred. Then Zayd returned and bought it from him for eighty cash and delivered the eighty. How much is in 'Amr's debt to Zayd?
The student: One hundred.
The Shaykh : One hundred, one hundred. Zayd has one hundred from 'Amr, right?
The student: One hundred.
The Shaykh : Correct?
The student: ...
The Shaykh : Zayd has one hundred from 'Amr. There is no god but Allah! ...
The student: ...
The Shaykh : Good, let us repeat it a second time. Shall we bring the blackboard or is there no need?
The student: ...
The Shaykh : Good. Zayd sold a donkey to 'Amr for one hundred to be paid in one year. Is it clear now?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : Clear. How much is established for Zayd from 'Amr?
The student: One hundred.
The Shaykh : One hundred... the donkey. Then Zayd returned to 'Amr and said, "Sell it to me for eighty cash, I will give you the eighty." So he sold it for cash for eighty. Now, what is established for Zayd from 'Amr?
The student: One hundred.
The Shaykh : One hundred, like this or not?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : For eighty, because he received eighty, like this or not?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : It is as if this, I mean Zayd, gave 'Amr eighty for one hundred to be paid in one year.
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : Is it clear now?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : Good. The hadith says
he should have the lesser of the two or it will involve usury
له أوكسهما أو الرّباThe student: ...
The Shaykh : The eighty, the lesser or usury or interest. We say, "You now, O Zayd, if you take one hundred from 'Amr, you fall into usury or interest because you took more than what you gave. You gave him the eighty. And if you take only the eighty when the year is completed, right?
The student: ...
The Shaykh : You are out of usury or interest. So when the year is completed, we say to Zayd, "Come. If you take the one hundred, ah, you fall into usury or interest. And if you take the eighty, you are out of usury or interest. So you have the lesser of the two without usury or interest, or usury or interest if you take the greater."
The student: ...
The Shaykh : Wait, everyone. Let us understand this. There is no question until... Did you understand now or not?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : Good. We now have an explanation of the first term: "He forbade two sales in one sale," right? And we clarified that the explanation that explains the apparent term is not intended, which is that I say, "I will not sell you this item until you buy this item," or "I will not sell you this item until you sell me this item." And we said that these two are not intended, right?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : Good. So the second issue: we said the hadith was explained with two explanations. Either the meaning is, "I sell it to you for eighty cash or for one hundred on credit to be paid in one year." This is one. Another explanation says it is the issue of 'inah. What is the issue of 'inah? That he sells an item for a deferred price and then buys it for less than that in cash. The form of this issue of 'inah is: I sold Zayd a donkey for one hundred to be paid in one year, and then I bought it for eighty cash. Which of the two explanations is more appropriate for matching the hadith?
The student: The second.
The Shaykh : The second, because "two sales in one sale" was clarified by the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) when he said:
he should have the lesser of the two or it will involve usury.
فله أوكسهما أو الرّباThe student: Eighty.
The Shaykh : If you do not take anything but the eighty that you gave him, then you are safe from usury or interest. But if you take the one hundred, which is the price of the first sale, then you fall into usury or interest, because the reality of the matter is that you gave him eighty for one hundred and you inserted a donkey between them. For this reason, Ibn 'Abbas (may Allah be pleased with them both) said regarding the issue of 'inah: "It is dirhams for dirhams, and a garment entered between them". A garment means a piece of clothing. We say here in our example: dirhams for dirhams, and a donkey entered between them, right?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : Good. The first form in the second explanation, which is "I sell you this for ten cash or for twenty on credit," what is the reason for including it in the hadith? They said, "Because this is usury or interest, because you increased the price in exchange for the delay. This is one reason. And because this is ambiguity, because the price has not settled. You said, 'For ten cash or for twenty on credit.' So what will the buyer be? Did he commit to ten or did he commit to twenty? And the seller does not know whether what he got was ten or twenty. So the issue contains ambiguity and usury or interest. Did you understand now?
The student: Yes.
The Shaykh : So it falls under the hadith, but upon reflection, it becomes clear that the hadith is not intended to mean that. First, based on the wording of Abu Dawud, and second, because the seller saying, "I sold this to you for eighty cash or one hundred on credit," contains no riba and no gharar. There is no riba because I did not exchange the eighty dirhams for one hundred; rather, the increase is in the price of the commodity. Just as if I said, "This commodity is worth only eighty, but I am selling it to you for one hundred," is that permissible or not?
The student: It is permissible.
The Shaykh : ... How much?
The student : Twenty.
The Shaykh : Twenty, and this is not riba. So if I defer this hundred to you ... good. If it is permissible for me to sell what is worth eighty for one hundred cash, why is it not permissible for me to sell what is worth eighty for one hundred?
The student : On credit.
The Shaykh : On credit, a fortiori. Second, their claim that this is ambiguity (jahlah), we say it is not ambiguity, because the buyer cannot leave the place until the price is fixed. And what is the price?
The student : Eighty.
The Shaykh : Eighty or one hundred. It is true that if the price is not fixed, it is ambiguity, but we do not take this from this hadith; we take it from other hadiths, which is the ambiguity of the price. However, if he says, "By Allah, take this; I am selling it to you for eighty cash or one hundred in one year," and he says, "I took it for one hundred in one year."
The student : It became known.
The Shaykh : Huh? There is something. It became known. We did not separate until we fixed the price, and the buyer knew that he owed one hundred and the seller had one hundred, and there is no problem. So it is now clear that the most accurate interpretation of the hadith is the issue of 'inah, because we interpreted the saying of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) with the saying of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him), and there is nothing better than interpreting a hadith with a hadith. Therefore, the scholars agreed that if it is possible to interpret a speaker's words with his own words, that is preferable to interpreting them with the words of someone else, because he knows his own intention best. And this issue never applies except to the issue of 'inah. As for eighty cash and one hundred on credit, there is nothing wrong with it, but on the condition that they do not separate until they fix the price, or he says, for example, "You have the choice of eighty cash or one hundred on credit, and you have the choice for one day or two days." If he takes it on this condition, there is nothing wrong with it.
The questioner : Shaykh?
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : What is the difference between ...