Explanation of the Book of Tawhid-53

The Shaykh :"And from Ibn Mas'ud (may Allah be pleased with him), he said: Between the lowest heaven and the one above it" "Ibn Mas'ud said:" Then the hadith is mawquf (stopping at a Companion)
As you see, this hadith is mawquf (stopping at a Companion) on Abdullah ibn Mas'ud, but it is among the matters where there is no room for opinion. The scholars said in the terminology that if a Companion narrates a hadith in which there is no room for opinion, it is considered marfu' (traced to the Prophet) unless the Companion is known for taking from the Isra'iliyyat (Jewish and Christian traditions). Ibn Mas'ud was not known for that. Therefore, his hadith has the ruling of being marfu' (traced to the Prophet). Let us look at how many years are between each ?
The student: One thousand.

The Shaykh : No, no, this matter does not exclude... in the calculation, seven times five hundred, right?
The student: Three thousand and five hundred.

The Shaykh : Three thousand and five hundred, three thousand and five hundred years, yes.
The student: Seven is the number...

The Shaykh : He says: We see that between the lowest heaven and the one above it are seven hundred.
The student: Five hundred.

The Shaykh : Five hundred, yes. And the second heaven and the one above it are five hundred, and the third and the one above it are five hundred, and the fourth and the one above it are five hundred, and the fifth and the one above it are five hundred, and the sixth and the one above it...
The student: Three thousand.

The Shaykh : Three thousand, yes, yes. Good. And between the seventh heaven and the Footstool are five hundred, that is three thousand and five hundred. And between the Footstool and the water are five hundred, that is four thousand years, right?
The student: ...

The Shaykh : This is not mentioned in this hadith, but in another hadith, it is mentioned that the thickness of each heaven is five hundred years, yes. So the number multiplies. And he says: Meaning, immense distances. And five hundred years means immense distances. When do these distances become this? Since we counted them now as five, forty years, four thousand years. If this hadith is authentic, it means that the elevation of Allah (Mighty and Majestic) is very far, meaning very much. But what is mentioned by contemporaries today is that there are immense distances between us and some of the stars and galaxies, as they say, and they do not measure them by travel, but by years.
The student: Light years.

The Shaykh : Light years. So we say in answer to that: If the hadiths from the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) are authentic, then we dismiss what contradicts them and do not accept the speech of anyone, ever, if the hadith from the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) is authentic. And if it is estimated that we saw the thing with our own eyes and perceived it with our senses, then in this case, we must follow one of two things: either we do not authenticate the hadith from the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) and there is a defect in it, or we reconcile the two by any of the ways of reconciliation. If reconciliation is possible, we reconcile. If it is not possible...
The student: ...

The Shaykh : We weaken the hadith, because authentic hadiths from the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) can never contradict a real sensory fact, is that clear? And as Shaykh al-Islam (may Allah have mercy on him) said in the book al-'Aql wa al-Naql: "It is impossible for two definitive proofs to contradict each other, ever" Because their contradiction means either negating both opposites or combining both opposites, and this is impossible. If one suspects contradiction between them, then either there is no contradiction and it is an error of understanding, or one of them is not definitive, but one is definitive and the other is probabilistic. And as for the existence of a contradiction between two definitive proofs, this is impossible... So if the real fact that we see with our own eyes, and in which we have no doubt, contradicts the apparent meaning of something from the Book and the Sunnah, then the apparent meaning of the Book is interpreted (ta'wil) to be in accordance with reality. An example of that is: And Noah (peace and blessings be upon him) said to his people: In the heavens, no, no?
The student : Yes

The Shaykh : This verse is more difficult than the first verses, why?
The student: ...

The Shaykh : Because the first verse it is very easy to say that the intended meaning of "heaven" is the elevation, but this is the problem: In the heavens. So its difficulty is greater. And now we know, according to what has occurred and become established, that the moon is not in the heaven itself, but rather in an orbit between the heaven and the earth. So what do we do? We say that the verse in the Qur'an, the legal proof in the Qur'an, and the reality is apparent. We cannot say that the Qur'an is not correct, no, no? But we must look at the indication: does it definitively indicate that the moon is in the heaven itself, set in it as a nail is set in a piece of wood? Yes. If it definitively indicates that, then definitively, the moon that they say we reached is not a moon; it may be a body in the air about which nothing is known. But the verse is not explicit. The verse of al-Furqan We say that the intended meaning of "heaven" is the elevation, like "We sent down water from the heaven," and it comes down from the clouds, and the clouds are between the heaven and the earth, as Allah the Exalted mentioned. But We also say that it is not explicit, as it allows for interpretation (ta'wil). What is the interpretation? "In their directions," "in their directions," yes. And if they are in their directions, then what is the direction of the heavens?
The student: To the heights

The Shaykh : This is the attribute of being above, and thus it is possible to reconcile the verse with reality. In any case, it is impossible for a definitive indication to be in conflict with a definitive reality. A proof that is definitive in its establishment and indication can never be opposed to a reality that is definitive in its establishment, as the Shaykh al-Islam (may Allah have mercy on him) established. We are now saying that this hadith is from Ibn Mas'ud (may Allah be pleased with him). If its chain of narration is authentic to the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him), then we do not accept their estimates that speak of millions of light years, and I do not know what comes after that; we do not accept them. And if it is not authentic, then if what is established with us is also the case, we accept what they say, because their measurements may be erroneous and their theories may also be wrong. If these theories are correct, and if it is not authentic from the Messenger (may the prayer and peace of Allah be upon him), we say this is weak, because one of the signs of a weak hadith is that it contradicts reality, as will come to us, if Allah wills, in the terminology of hadith. And his saying: "And the Throne is above the water, and Allah is above the Throne" is a clear and explicit text affirming the elevation of Allah the Exalted in His essence and the elevation of Allah the Exalted in meaning, meaning the elevation of the attribute. No one who claims to be a Muslim denies this. But the elevation of the essence is denied by those among the people who claim to be Muslims who deny it. How do they interpret the elevation of the essence? They say that not all the elevation mentioned as attributed to Allah means the elevation of the attribute, meaning the elevation of rank. So they say, for example, "And Allah is above that" "above the Throne" means above it in power, control, and dominion, and not above it in His essence. There is no doubt that this is a distortion. And those who denied the elevation of Allah by His essence—see how their falsehood led them to the most false statement. They divided into two groups. One group said that Allah is in every place by His essence. He is in every place by His essence. If you are in the mosque, yes, Allah is in the mosque. In the market, Allah is in the market. In the garbage, Allah is in the garbage. How well some of the brothers said this year during Hajj: he met one of the Shi'ah, and I do not know how the discussion came about. He told them, "Allah rose above the Throne." The Shi'ite said, "No, this is what the Shi'ite says: Allah owned the Throne and took possession of it, but Allah is in every place, in every place." This man opened the Shi'ite's box and said, "Okay, let me see it in your boxes." The other was embarrassed because if He is in every place, He would be in the box too. Yes, he was embarrassed and unable to answer anything. The second group that denied the elevation said, "We do not say that Allah the Exalted is above, below, right, left, connected to creation, or separated from creation." What happened? It is pure denial. For this reason, some scholars said, if someone were to say, "Describe for us non-existence," we would not find a better description than this. Non-existence is that which is not inside the world, nor outside it, nor connected to it, nor separated from it, nor above it, nor below it, nor to its right, nor to its left. This is non-existence. So they fled, and may Allah protect us, from something indicated by the texts, the intellects, and the innate dispositions, to something that the texts, the intellects, and the innate dispositions invalidate. We ask Allah for safety. Yes.