What is the ruling on the loans taken by employees, which carry a percentage of two and a half percent for loan services, such as for the employees who follow up on this process?

The questioner : I mean, one of them gets a loan; one might get a loan of five thousand or seven thousand, depending on the length of his service. One who has served twenty years is not like one who has served, for example, thirty years. But this percentage of two and a half percent is taken from everyone. If it is a loan, and the loan he took was five thousand or seven thousand, they take two and a half percent for loan services. They hire employees to follow up on this process.

The Shaykh : They call this addition by a name other than its true name. It is riba (usury or interest), or they call it from the angle of what? What did I say?

The questioner : Loan services.

The Shaykh : Services? And why do they not serve the employees as they serve others in other transactions without compensation?

The questioner : They need employees to manage, I mean, the loans, because the number of employees is, for example, five thousand. Every employee wants to take five thousand, and they want to deduct a monthly installment of, for example, one hundred dinars. This requires follow-up and ledgers in which it is recorded.

The Shaykh : They say it is like this.

The questioner : They want to do that in reality.

The Shaykh : I am asking you: do they say it is like this?

The questioner : If they do it in reality, I mean, if we assume the best of them.

The Shaykh : And of whom do you assume the best, here?

The questioner : I mean, if we assume the best of them.

The Shaykh : Are they worthy of having the best assumed of them?

The questioner : If they are truthful, I mean, if they really want to hire four or five employees.

The Shaykh : My brother, may Allah guide you. You are repeating your words in vain and not answering my question. Are they worthy of having the best assumed of them?

The questioner : I do not know them, I, these people, but those who...

The Shaykh : May Allah guide you. I mean, those working in the departments, all of them, do they follow the rulings of Islam?

The questioner : They do not follow the rulings of Islam.

The Shaykh : Then where does assuming the best come from?

The questioner : Assuming the best comes from the fact that they are truthful in hiring four or five employees to manage the loan, meaning that the percentage does not go to them but goes...

The Shaykh : How do you know that they are truthful? Assuming the best.

The questioner : The employees did not inform me of this.

The Shaykh : Assuming the best. You have no knowledge. Assuming the best is what tells you to believe their words.

The questioner : Okay, let us suppose that they do that.

The Shaykh : Do you not know my answer? Let us suppose that it is permissible. Do you benefit from anything? Let us suppose that it is permissible. I did not understand me.

The questioner : No, I did not understand you.

The Shaykh : Okay, if we remove the word "suppose" and say "it is permissible."

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : I understand now.

The questioner : If we suppose, I mean, that it is permissible to benefit from the loan.
The student : ... .

The Shaykh : If we say it is permissible, I understood the answer.

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : And if I add the word that I omitted for your sake, "we suppose that it is permissible," the matter changes.

The questioner : No, no, it does not change.

The Shaykh : Then why did you not understand me before?