What is your opinion of the statement of al-Mu'allimi (may Allah have mercy on him): "When the imams and preservers reject a text, and the chain of narration appears sound on its face, they seek for it a decisive defect wherever it occurred, and if they do not find a decisive defect wherever it occurred, they attribute to it a non-decisive defect, such as attributing to the hadith the defect that its narrator did not explicitly state that he heard it, even though he is not known for concealment of defects (tadlis)?"
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The questioner : The Shaykh 'Abd al-Rahman ibn Yahya al-Mu'allimi says in the introduction to his edition of the book *Al-Fawa'id al-Majmu'ah* by al-Shawkani: "When the imams and preservers reject a text, and the chain of narration appears sound on its face, they seek for it a decisive defect wherever it occurred, and if they do not find a decisive defect wherever it occurred, they attribute to it a non-decisive defect, such as attributing to the hadith the defect that its narrator did not explicitly state that he heard it, even though he is not known for concealment of defects (tadlis). He gave as an example the hadith of the beast in the biography of 'Amr ibn Abi 'Amr, the freed slave of al-Mut'ib, from 'Ikrimah. Al-Bukhari said: 'And as for 'Amr, I do not know whether he heard from 'Ikrimah or not.'" So here, regarding the guidance: Is it permissible for me, if I find a text to be rejected, to come and say that this narrator did not explicitly state that he heard it, even though he is not known for concealment of defects (tadlis)? The Shaykh 'Abd al-Rahman mentioned the reasoning for this story; shall I mention it, O our Shaykh?
The Shaykh : Yes
The questioner : He said: "And their argument for this is that when it becomes clear in the mind of the critic that the text is rejected, he looks to the weakest place where a defect might enter from that direction, and he holds onto it. And if it is not so, this method can be used in other places."
The Shaykh : This statement resembles the statement of ... you mentioned there, and perhaps ...
The student: Peace be upon you.
The Shaykh : I referred to this earlier—and upon you be peace and the mercy of Allah and His blessings—I also referred to it earlier regarding the case where there is a hadith of Qatadah from Anas with a double 'an (concealed narration). The original rule is to smooth out his narration unless there is something that leads us to attribute a defect to it, and we find no defect other than the double 'an. This is sound speech, but who is the one who is capable of doing this?
The student: The great preservers.
The Shaykh : The preservers and those who follow their path; otherwise, opening this door opens ... a great deal, yes.
The questioner : Yes, meaning, so the narrator is accused of having heard or not having heard ... this is not permissible except for the great preservers only?
The Shaykh : Otherwise, the scope for attributing defects to rejected texts would be narrowed.
The questioner : Yes
The Shaykh : As for absolutely, it is not permissible.
The questioner : It is not permissible
The Shaykh : Yes
The questioner : ...
The Shaykh : ... and placing it in my study is better than Qatadah, because some of them say, as I think, and now I am hesitating, that the narration of Yahya from Abu Salama is the book.
The questioner : ...
The Shaykh : Yes
The questioner : ... 'Ubayd ibn Salam.
The Shaykh : 'Ubayd ibn.
The questioner : Peace
The Shaykh : Yes, correct, and I had dealt with this issue in my response to al-Ansari, which was not published in detail. Then many years passed, and al-Ansari published his response to which I had responded, which is known today in the world of publications.
The questioner : Yes
The Shaykh : Well, what about the others.
Did our brother Abu 'Abdullah take his wife?
The questioner : ...
The Shaykh : He left his wife there, well.
The questioner : ... the issue is, in the narration of Yahya ibn Abi Kathir ... Ibn Abi Hatim narrates from Yahya ibn Abi Kathir that he went to dictate the hadiths he had from 'Ubayd ibn Abi Salam, so it was said to him, "Did you hear these ...?" He said to them, "No." They said, "Did you hear it from a man who heard it from Zayd?" He said to them, "No." They said to him, "How do you narrate these hadiths when you did not hear them ... nor from a man who heard them from him?" He said, "What do you say if a man wrote hadiths from the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him), brought out the inkwell and pen, and wrote hadiths from the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) like these, would he be lying?" So he means ... the phrase is that he has a good opinion, meaning of the one who narrates these hadiths, that they are authentic hadiths ... the man whom that person mentioned from Zayd ...
The Shaykh : Yes, but it is not hidden from you that the legal ruling in matters where there may be disagreement cannot be measured from the perspective of one single person among the imams of hadith.
The questioner : ...
The Shaykh : I am saying, I have not finished my speech yet; Yahya is speaking about himself in what Abu Hatim mentioned.
The questioner : Yes
The Shaykh : I am saying now that there are many hadiths in the two Sahihs, let alone others, narrated through the path of Yahya ibn Kathir from Abu Salama. So what do we say? We must say one of two things or something of two things: Either we say that if the statement of Abu Hatim in what he narrated from Yahya ibn Abi Salama is true, its implication is that the narration in the two Sahihs, let alone others, is disconnected. Or we say that these narrations are not disconnected because Yahya ibn Abi Kathir is a trustworthy narrator who is relied upon in the two Sahihs. So that narration may be established. Now the question arises regarding what you mentioned; I remember that a narration like this passed by me, but the question now is: Do you remember, and perhaps you are recently acquainted with it, that Abu Hatim mentioned its chain of narration in this story to Yahya ibn Kathir?
The questioner : He mentioned its chain, yes.
The Shaykh : And did you study the chain?
The questioner : ... and Ibn Khuzaymah also mentioned the chain in the book of Tawhid and said that Muslim took it from him ...
The Shaykh : Muslim took it from him?
The questioner : Yes, Muslim took this story from Ibn Khuzaymah.
The Shaykh : Where did Muslim take it from?
The questioner : ... it is not present in the introduction ... Yahya ibn Abi Kathir narrated from ... from Zayd, or from his father? Because Salam is in four: Zayd and Mu'awiyah ...
The Shaykh : Yes
The questioner : So Mu'awiyah and his father, Mu'awiyah is the brother of Zayd, Mu'awiyah and his father ... naturally, from his grandfather, there is no doubt that ...
The Shaykh : Do you mean by the grandfather Mansur?
The questioner : Mansur, yes. As for from Zayd, he is ... from Abu Salam himself, who is his father, or from Zayd ibn Abi Salam.
The Shaykh : You are talking about Yahya ibn Abi Kathir.
The questioner : Yes, in the narration of Ibn Khuzaymah.
The Shaykh : In his narration from whom?
The questioner : Meaning ... from Zayd ibn Abi Salam, or from Abu Salam, who is considered the father, because his narration from the father is established, and ... Abu Hatim, with his chain, that ... Yahya ibn Abi Kathir to Mu'awiyah ibn Abi Tamam said to him, "Your father is still informing us ... he confirmed the hearing from the father, and at the same time ... from Mu'awiyah, but from Zayd ...
The Shaykh : The matter has become confused for me now; the narration of Yahya ibn Abi Kathir that I was going around about is from Abu Salama.
The questioner : No, I said from Zayd ...
The Shaykh : I said that this narration is present in the two Sahihs and other than the two Sahihs.
The questioner : ...
The Shaykh : Peace be upon you
The questioner : The narration in Sahih Muslim is from Zayd, who is, Yahya ibn Abi Kathir from Zayd.
The Shaykh : Yes, yes.
The questioner : Ibn al-Qattan attributed a defect to the narration due to disconnection.
The Shaykh : In any case, I do not recall an answer now because the time has been long ... recalling it in the texts, so ... this story?
The questioner : ...
The Shaykh : In any case, the time has run out for us now, so please allow us to leave, because we have another meeting, if Allah wills.
The Shaykh : Yes
The questioner : He said: "And their argument for this is that when it becomes clear in the mind of the critic that the text is rejected, he looks to the weakest place where a defect might enter from that direction, and he holds onto it. And if it is not so, this method can be used in other places."
The Shaykh : This statement resembles the statement of ... you mentioned there, and perhaps ...
The student: Peace be upon you.
The Shaykh : I referred to this earlier—and upon you be peace and the mercy of Allah and His blessings—I also referred to it earlier regarding the case where there is a hadith of Qatadah from Anas with a double 'an (concealed narration). The original rule is to smooth out his narration unless there is something that leads us to attribute a defect to it, and we find no defect other than the double 'an. This is sound speech, but who is the one who is capable of doing this?
The student: The great preservers.
The Shaykh : The preservers and those who follow their path; otherwise, opening this door opens ... a great deal, yes.
The questioner : Yes, meaning, so the narrator is accused of having heard or not having heard ... this is not permissible except for the great preservers only?
The Shaykh : Otherwise, the scope for attributing defects to rejected texts would be narrowed.
The questioner : Yes
The Shaykh : As for absolutely, it is not permissible.
The questioner : It is not permissible
The Shaykh : Yes
The questioner : ...
The Shaykh : ... and placing it in my study is better than Qatadah, because some of them say, as I think, and now I am hesitating, that the narration of Yahya from Abu Salama is the book.
The questioner : ...
The Shaykh : Yes
The questioner : ... 'Ubayd ibn Salam.
The Shaykh : 'Ubayd ibn.
The questioner : Peace
The Shaykh : Yes, correct, and I had dealt with this issue in my response to al-Ansari, which was not published in detail. Then many years passed, and al-Ansari published his response to which I had responded, which is known today in the world of publications.
The questioner : Yes
The Shaykh : Well, what about the others.
Did our brother Abu 'Abdullah take his wife?
The questioner : ...
The Shaykh : He left his wife there, well.
The questioner : ... the issue is, in the narration of Yahya ibn Abi Kathir ... Ibn Abi Hatim narrates from Yahya ibn Abi Kathir that he went to dictate the hadiths he had from 'Ubayd ibn Abi Salam, so it was said to him, "Did you hear these ...?" He said to them, "No." They said, "Did you hear it from a man who heard it from Zayd?" He said to them, "No." They said to him, "How do you narrate these hadiths when you did not hear them ... nor from a man who heard them from him?" He said, "What do you say if a man wrote hadiths from the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him), brought out the inkwell and pen, and wrote hadiths from the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) like these, would he be lying?" So he means ... the phrase is that he has a good opinion, meaning of the one who narrates these hadiths, that they are authentic hadiths ... the man whom that person mentioned from Zayd ...
The Shaykh : Yes, but it is not hidden from you that the legal ruling in matters where there may be disagreement cannot be measured from the perspective of one single person among the imams of hadith.
The questioner : ...
The Shaykh : I am saying, I have not finished my speech yet; Yahya is speaking about himself in what Abu Hatim mentioned.
The questioner : Yes
The Shaykh : I am saying now that there are many hadiths in the two Sahihs, let alone others, narrated through the path of Yahya ibn Kathir from Abu Salama. So what do we say? We must say one of two things or something of two things: Either we say that if the statement of Abu Hatim in what he narrated from Yahya ibn Abi Salama is true, its implication is that the narration in the two Sahihs, let alone others, is disconnected. Or we say that these narrations are not disconnected because Yahya ibn Abi Kathir is a trustworthy narrator who is relied upon in the two Sahihs. So that narration may be established. Now the question arises regarding what you mentioned; I remember that a narration like this passed by me, but the question now is: Do you remember, and perhaps you are recently acquainted with it, that Abu Hatim mentioned its chain of narration in this story to Yahya ibn Kathir?
The questioner : He mentioned its chain, yes.
The Shaykh : And did you study the chain?
The questioner : ... and Ibn Khuzaymah also mentioned the chain in the book of Tawhid and said that Muslim took it from him ...
The Shaykh : Muslim took it from him?
The questioner : Yes, Muslim took this story from Ibn Khuzaymah.
The Shaykh : Where did Muslim take it from?
The questioner : ... it is not present in the introduction ... Yahya ibn Abi Kathir narrated from ... from Zayd, or from his father? Because Salam is in four: Zayd and Mu'awiyah ...
The Shaykh : Yes
The questioner : So Mu'awiyah and his father, Mu'awiyah is the brother of Zayd, Mu'awiyah and his father ... naturally, from his grandfather, there is no doubt that ...
The Shaykh : Do you mean by the grandfather Mansur?
The questioner : Mansur, yes. As for from Zayd, he is ... from Abu Salam himself, who is his father, or from Zayd ibn Abi Salam.
The Shaykh : You are talking about Yahya ibn Abi Kathir.
The questioner : Yes, in the narration of Ibn Khuzaymah.
The Shaykh : In his narration from whom?
The questioner : Meaning ... from Zayd ibn Abi Salam, or from Abu Salam, who is considered the father, because his narration from the father is established, and ... Abu Hatim, with his chain, that ... Yahya ibn Abi Kathir to Mu'awiyah ibn Abi Tamam said to him, "Your father is still informing us ... he confirmed the hearing from the father, and at the same time ... from Mu'awiyah, but from Zayd ...
The Shaykh : The matter has become confused for me now; the narration of Yahya ibn Abi Kathir that I was going around about is from Abu Salama.
The questioner : No, I said from Zayd ...
The Shaykh : I said that this narration is present in the two Sahihs and other than the two Sahihs.
The questioner : ...
The Shaykh : Peace be upon you
The questioner : The narration in Sahih Muslim is from Zayd, who is
In the prayer is proof.
في الصلاة برهانThe Shaykh : Yes, yes.
The questioner : Ibn al-Qattan attributed a defect to the narration due to disconnection.
The Shaykh : In any case, I do not recall an answer now because the time has been long ... recalling it in the texts, so ... this story?
The questioner : ...
The Shaykh : In any case, the time has run out for us now, so please allow us to leave, because we have another meeting, if Allah wills.