The Shaykh's response to a student of knowledge's interjection and his use of the hadith of al-Khath'amiah as evidence for covering the face.
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The Shaykh : So I am asking you now, and I am giving you the floor to say whatever you wish, but please pay attention to my request, which is:
What is the binding legal evidence from the Book of Allah or from the hadith of the Messenger of Allah that obligates every Muslim to submit to it, proving that the woman's face is 'awrah?
The hadith of al-Khath'amiah is for us, not against us, as I have explained to you.
The questioner : May Allah reward you.
The Shaykh : And here it is, if Allah wills.
The questioner : I want Allah to do you good; ten minutes may not be enough for me to reach my point.
The Shaykh : What time is it now?
The questioner : It is seven minutes to the hour.
The Shaykh : Seven minutes to the hour, take seven and five.
The questioner : May Allah reward you, may Allah bless you.
The Shaykh : And may He bless you too.
The questioner : And I ask you to bear with me, I may not be able to, for example, I might be unable or something, so you take what I have and then afterwards.
The Shaykh : Please, but allow me: we will give you 12 minutes, perhaps one of two things will happen:
Either I will have to ask your permission and stop at a point, at which time you will say to me: "You interrupted my speech," or I will have to record every point that I have a note on, so that I can return and research it with you. So which of the two ways do you choose?
The questioner : Choose whichever you choose, I do not want more than ten minutes.
The Shaykh : You have not answered me?
The questioner : I do not want you to interrupt me so that I can express what I have.
The Shaykh : No problem, but I am giving you a choice: either I will have to interrupt you if, for example, you mention a hadith, and you want to talk for ten minutes...
The questioner : About the hadith...
The Shaykh : Listen, may Allah bless you, an example, an example![Al-Hashr 59:21] , suppose that in these ten minutes and more you bring a hadith, and this hadith, in my opinion, is weak and does not constitute a valid argument.
The questioner : It will be recorded.
The Shaykh : Here is the answer, do you see? I gave you a choice, so give us a paper. Please, this clock is seven minutes to five, take seven and seven, please.
The questioner : Praise be to Allah, Lord of the worlds, and may Allah send prayers and peace upon our Prophet Muhammad and upon his family and all his Companions. O Allah, by You we seek help and upon You we rely. O Allah, send prayers upon Muhammad:
Regarding the hadith of al-Khath'amiah—may Allah reward you—you said to me: Why did the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) not order her to cover her face? We are all in agreement that looking is forbidden by the text of the Book and by the text of the Sunnah, due to the saying of Allah the Exalted:[An-Nur 24:30] And also He said in the corresponding verse: [An-Nur 24:31], so when the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) prevented al-Fadl from looking at her because he was forbidden from looking at her, and he was also a handsome man, as the Sunnah stated, and she was forbidden from looking at him, why did the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) not also order her to lower her gaze, when she is commanded by the Book to lower her gaze from men? And as the hadith explicitly stated, he said: , continue in that, until the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) turned his face away from her and did not order her either to lower her gaze, nor to cover her face, nor to lower her gaze. This is what, may Allah know best, supports what we said, that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) left the matter of covering her face. This is one issue.
As for the other issue, it is the verse, the saying of Allah the Exalted:[Al-Ahzab 33:59]: We look at the tafsir of Ibn Mas'ud, if the brothers have found it. And in truth, I say: I do not like to say more than what I have said, and I ask Allah, the Exalted and Sublime, to benefit us all with what is in the Book of Allah and the Sunnah of His Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him). And if you want me to say a final word, then I say:
The enemies of Allah in this time, and the fitnah of the West that exists now, first fought the hijab, which is the covering of the woman's face, when Cromer, the English governor, called for it. Then the Muslims opposed him in that, the Muslims opposed him in Egypt and elsewhere, and among them was the one who published the book *The Modern Woman*, I think it is called Qasim Amin. And when, according to what was mentioned to us, the granddaughter of one of the leaders either frightened him or enticed him, he changed and relapsed and called for what Cromer called for. Then afterwards, I think one of the rulers, called Saad Zaghlul, the Prime Minister in the era of the English, took a woman and removed her hijab. And this indicates to us that the enemies of Allah are united in fighting the covering of the face, and when the hijab is removed from the face, the rest follows. But let us leave this on the margin, even if you prefer not to discuss this, there is no need. But my saying is what I said first:
That the Prophet (may the best prayers and perfect peace be upon him), when he covered al-Fadl's face and did not order her to cover her face either, and at the same time it was forbidden for her to look at the man, did not order her (peace and blessings be upon him) to lower her gaze from him. We ask Allah, the Exalted and Sublime, to forgive us all and to overlook our faults, for He is Able to do all things, and to inspire us with the right path, and may Allah reward you with good.
The Shaykh : O Allah, amen, O Lord of the worlds.
The Shaykh : It seems to me, O Shaykh, that you have not read my book *The Hijab of the Muslim Woman*. Have you read it?
The questioner : By Allah, I have read it.
The Shaykh : Strange, so why do you not answer my questions? Glory be to Allah! I said to you: What is...
You say: Since the Messenger prevented al-Fadl from looking at the woman's face, that indicates that the woman's face is 'awrah that she must cover. So when we say to you: Why did he not order her to cover it? You say: Perhaps she was new to Islam.
The questioner : We are done with this.
The Shaykh : But you have not answered me.
The questioner : I said: Finally, also, he (peace and blessings be upon him) did not order her to lower her gaze.
The Shaykh : I allowed you seven minutes instead of five, and twelve minutes, so you, praise be to Allah, finished before the time passed, but I barely started to draw your attention when you also interrupted the speech. What do you think? Let us take from you, how much do you allow me to talk?
The questioner : I allow you whatever you wish, but this, O Shaykh.
The Shaykh : But I see you are in a hurry.
The questioner : No, I am explaining to you that I...
The Shaykh : No problem, explain to me later, do not interrupt my speech.
The questioner : Be assured.
The Shaykh : I am now summarizing the discussion that took place between you and me. I said to you, finally, I hope you will bring the evidence from the Book and the Sunnah that obligates each of us to submit to it. At first I said to you: The original ruling for things is permissibility, and you agreed with this, and that it is not permissible to depart from this original ruling except with evidence that moves us from permissibility to prohibition. So I said to you: What is the evidence for the prohibition of the woman uncovering her face? I did not say to you: What is the evidence for the prohibition of the man looking at the woman's face, because this is a matter agreed upon between us. So I demanded this from you and you did nothing, but you passed quickly over the saying of Allah the Exalted:[Al-Ahzab 33:59] Then you listed or rambled on about the callers of unveiling and Qasim Amin and so on. This has no relation to our research, because this speech does not prohibit or permit, because it is the action of some of the wealthy, extravagant people, and so on. So now I return and demand from you the evidence from the Book and the Sunnah that the woman's face is 'awrah that it is not permissible for her to uncover it in front of non-mahram men. Do you have evidence?
The questioner : I have—may Allah reward you—the saying of Allah the Exalted:[Al-Ahzab 33:59] And the interpretation of it by the scholars of Islam, Ibn Mas'ud and the rest of the imams that we mentioned. And also the hadith of al-Khath'amiah, when the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) covered al-Fadl's face and turned his neck (peace and blessings be upon him) to prevent him from looking at her. We said this because her face is 'awrah, and if it were not 'awrah... As for why he did not order her to cover her face, also, why did he not order her to lower her gaze, and lowering the gaze is obligatory? This is all I have, if it is sufficient, then I have nothing else.
The Shaykh : This is a repetition of the speech, may Allah bless you.
The questioner : I have nothing else.
The Shaykh : What shall we do for you then?
The questioner : Mention the verse, O Shaykh.
The Shaykh : He does not explain it, he mentions the verse and does not clarify it, but only says "the imams."
What is the binding legal evidence from the Book of Allah or from the hadith of the Messenger of Allah that obligates every Muslim to submit to it, proving that the woman's face is 'awrah?
The hadith of al-Khath'amiah is for us, not against us, as I have explained to you.
The questioner : May Allah reward you.
The Shaykh : And here it is, if Allah wills.
The questioner : I want Allah to do you good; ten minutes may not be enough for me to reach my point.
The Shaykh : What time is it now?
The questioner : It is seven minutes to the hour.
The Shaykh : Seven minutes to the hour, take seven and five.
The questioner : May Allah reward you, may Allah bless you.
The Shaykh : And may He bless you too.
The questioner : And I ask you to bear with me, I may not be able to, for example, I might be unable or something, so you take what I have and then afterwards.
The Shaykh : Please, but allow me: we will give you 12 minutes, perhaps one of two things will happen:
Either I will have to ask your permission and stop at a point, at which time you will say to me: "You interrupted my speech," or I will have to record every point that I have a note on, so that I can return and research it with you. So which of the two ways do you choose?
The questioner : Choose whichever you choose, I do not want more than ten minutes.
The Shaykh : You have not answered me?
The questioner : I do not want you to interrupt me so that I can express what I have.
The Shaykh : No problem, but I am giving you a choice: either I will have to interrupt you if, for example, you mention a hadith, and you want to talk for ten minutes...
The questioner : About the hadith...
The Shaykh : Listen, may Allah bless you, an example, an example!
And these examples We present to the people that perhaps they will give thought.
وتلك الأمثال نضربها للناس لعلهم يتفكرونPerhaps they will understand.
لعلهم يعقلونThe questioner : It will be recorded.
The Shaykh : Here is the answer, do you see? I gave you a choice, so give us a paper. Please, this clock is seven minutes to five, take seven and seven, please.
The questioner : Praise be to Allah, Lord of the worlds, and may Allah send prayers and peace upon our Prophet Muhammad and upon his family and all his Companions. O Allah, by You we seek help and upon You we rely. O Allah, send prayers upon Muhammad:
Regarding the hadith of al-Khath'amiah—may Allah reward you—you said to me: Why did the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) not order her to cover her face? We are all in agreement that looking is forbidden by the text of the Book and by the text of the Sunnah, due to the saying of Allah the Exalted:
Tell the believing men to reduce [some] of their vision and guard their private parts
قل للمؤمنين يغضوا من أبصارهم ويحفظوا فروجهمAnd tell the believing women to reduce [some] of their vision and guard their private parts
وقل للمؤمنات يغضضن من أبصارهن ويحفظن فروجهنAnd he used to look at her and she used to look at him
وكان ينظر إليها وتنظر إليهAs for the other issue, it is the verse, the saying of Allah the Exalted:
to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments
يدنين عليهن من جلابيبهنThe enemies of Allah in this time, and the fitnah of the West that exists now, first fought the hijab, which is the covering of the woman's face, when Cromer, the English governor, called for it. Then the Muslims opposed him in that, the Muslims opposed him in Egypt and elsewhere, and among them was the one who published the book *The Modern Woman*, I think it is called Qasim Amin. And when, according to what was mentioned to us, the granddaughter of one of the leaders either frightened him or enticed him, he changed and relapsed and called for what Cromer called for. Then afterwards, I think one of the rulers, called Saad Zaghlul, the Prime Minister in the era of the English, took a woman and removed her hijab. And this indicates to us that the enemies of Allah are united in fighting the covering of the face, and when the hijab is removed from the face, the rest follows. But let us leave this on the margin, even if you prefer not to discuss this, there is no need. But my saying is what I said first:
That the Prophet (may the best prayers and perfect peace be upon him), when he covered al-Fadl's face and did not order her to cover her face either, and at the same time it was forbidden for her to look at the man, did not order her (peace and blessings be upon him) to lower her gaze from him. We ask Allah, the Exalted and Sublime, to forgive us all and to overlook our faults, for He is Able to do all things, and to inspire us with the right path, and may Allah reward you with good.
The Shaykh : O Allah, amen, O Lord of the worlds.
The Shaykh : It seems to me, O Shaykh, that you have not read my book *The Hijab of the Muslim Woman*. Have you read it?
The questioner : By Allah, I have read it.
The Shaykh : Strange, so why do you not answer my questions? Glory be to Allah! I said to you: What is...
You say: Since the Messenger prevented al-Fadl from looking at the woman's face, that indicates that the woman's face is 'awrah that she must cover. So when we say to you: Why did he not order her to cover it? You say: Perhaps she was new to Islam.
The questioner : We are done with this.
The Shaykh : But you have not answered me.
The questioner : I said: Finally, also, he (peace and blessings be upon him) did not order her to lower her gaze.
The Shaykh : I allowed you seven minutes instead of five, and twelve minutes, so you, praise be to Allah, finished before the time passed, but I barely started to draw your attention when you also interrupted the speech. What do you think? Let us take from you, how much do you allow me to talk?
The questioner : I allow you whatever you wish, but this, O Shaykh.
The Shaykh : But I see you are in a hurry.
The questioner : No, I am explaining to you that I...
The Shaykh : No problem, explain to me later, do not interrupt my speech.
The questioner : Be assured.
The Shaykh : I am now summarizing the discussion that took place between you and me. I said to you, finally, I hope you will bring the evidence from the Book and the Sunnah that obligates each of us to submit to it. At first I said to you: The original ruling for things is permissibility, and you agreed with this, and that it is not permissible to depart from this original ruling except with evidence that moves us from permissibility to prohibition. So I said to you: What is the evidence for the prohibition of the woman uncovering her face? I did not say to you: What is the evidence for the prohibition of the man looking at the woman's face, because this is a matter agreed upon between us. So I demanded this from you and you did nothing, but you passed quickly over the saying of Allah the Exalted:
to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments
يدنين عليهن مِن جلابيبهنThe questioner : I have—may Allah reward you—the saying of Allah the Exalted:
to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments
يدنين عليهن من جلابيبهنThe Shaykh : This is a repetition of the speech, may Allah bless you.
The questioner : I have nothing else.
The Shaykh : What shall we do for you then?
The questioner : Mention the verse, O Shaykh.
The Shaykh : He does not explain it, he mentions the verse and does not clarify it, but only says "the imams."