What is your opinion of the one who says that practical disbelief does not take one out of the religion at all, even if he has committed mockery of the religion or thrown the mushaf in the trash?
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The questioner : And the other hadith: Yes, so if it is said that this is because it is from the operations of practical disbelief, and that practical disbelief does not take one out of the religion at all, even if he has committed ridicule and mockery of the religion or thrown the mushaf in the trash, for example.
The Shaykh : Who says this?
The questioner : No, no, I am not giving examples.
The Shaykh : How?
The questioner : I am giving examples now; I want the answer to this. So, is it said that all of these fall under this practical disbelief?
The Shaykh : Do you know what practical disbelief and creedal disbelief are?
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : What is the ruling on the one who mocks?
The questioner : He may say that he is a believer.
The Shaykh : Do not be evasive. May Allah be pleased with you. As long as you want to remove the difficulty, be frank. What is the ruling on the one who mocks the Book of Allah or places his foot on the Book of Allah? Is this practical disbelief for you, or creedal disbelief?
The questioner : It indicates that it is almost creedal disbelief.
The Shaykh : There is no need for all this talk. Is it practical disbelief or creedal disbelief? The best speech is what is brief and to the point. What prevents you from saying it is creedal disbelief? Why do you avoid the point? You say it indicates this and that. The question is clear: Is it practical disbelief in your understanding, or creedal disbelief? The answer: Practical disbelief or creedal disbelief. What is the answer in your view?
The questioner : What appears to be the case is that it is practical disbelief, but certainly this takes one out of the religion, because it does not indicate that this is not in his creed, that he is not a believer, that he is a mushrik, that...
The Shaykh : So you do not know, it appears to me, and Allah knows best, from your answer, which is your saying, "It appears to me that it is practical disbelief."
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Yes, practical disbelief is like practical hypocrisy, and creedal disbelief is like creedal disbelief.
The questioner : Creedal hypocrisy.
The Shaykh : What is practical hypocrisy?
The questioner : He performs the actions of the hypocrites, such as lying.
The Shaykh : Good. So, does this make him a disbeliever?
The questioner : No.
The Shaykh : Okay, when does he become a disbeliever?
The questioner : If he believes it is permissible, for example.
The Shaykh : So what?
The questioner : As if he believes it is permissible, or that he displays Islam while concealing disbelief.
The Shaykh : Well, how does it enter your mind that a person who believes that this is the Book of Allah, truth and verity, tramples it with his foot? You only looked at his action and said it is practical disbelief.
The questioner : Yes
The Shaykh : But you did not look at what this action indicates about what is settled in his heart. So, do you combine in your mind that a believer in the Book of Allah places his foot on the words of Allah?
The questioner : Never.
The Shaykh : So how did you say, "It appears to me that it is practical disbelief"?
The questioner : Yes, because I want to reach this point so that I can raise the difficulty, which is...
The Shaykh : But it is not permissible for you to say, may Allah bless you, "What appears to me is that it is practical disbelief," because you will soon say, "No, rather it is disbelief itself."
The questioner : Yes
The Shaykh : Yes, this is not appropriate, because debate, research, and discussion should be such that the believer is frank with his Muslim brother, and does not go around in circles until he reaches a hidden trap, and so on. So you are one of two men: either you believe that this action is the creedal disbelief that leads to eternal abode in the Fire, or you believe, as we say regarding that detail you mentioned, that you were present for, and I do not know if you were present for this point, we have two men who leave off prayer. Both of them: one believes that it is an obligation, but he is negligent in it, and he asks Allah to guide him and forgive him, and so on. The other says, as some people in your country say, "No purity, no prayer; that time has passed." Do they become equal, for example? No, they do not become equal, for example.
So you, may Allah bless you, gave the worst of examples, and yet your answer when I asked you was, "What appears to me is that it is practical disbelief." You did not look at the action that indicates what is settled in the heart, which is mocking the verses of Allah. So this is not practical disbelief, because practical disbelief is like practical hypocrisy. His practical hypocrisy is different from his creed. His creed is sound, unlike creedal hypocrisy. So the hypocrite who is eternally in the Fire displays Islam, prays with the Muslims, and recites the Qur'an, and so on, but his heart is full of disbelief, so he is in the lowest depth of the Fire.
But the Muslim prays and fasts, but he lies, as I said, or makes a promise and does not fulfill it, and the like. So his disbelief is practical, not creedal. When does his disbelief become creedal? If he believes that this lying is not forbidden, if he believes that breaking a promise is not forbidden, and so on.
The questioner : Shaykh Nasser.
The Shaykh : What did you come up with?
between a man and disbelief and shirk
بين الرجل وبين الكفر والشركThe Shaykh : Who says this?
The questioner : No, no, I am not giving examples.
The Shaykh : How?
The questioner : I am giving examples now; I want the answer to this. So, is it said that all of these fall under this practical disbelief?
The Shaykh : Do you know what practical disbelief and creedal disbelief are?
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : What is the ruling on the one who mocks?
The questioner : He may say that he is a believer.
The Shaykh : Do not be evasive. May Allah be pleased with you. As long as you want to remove the difficulty, be frank. What is the ruling on the one who mocks the Book of Allah or places his foot on the Book of Allah? Is this practical disbelief for you, or creedal disbelief?
The questioner : It indicates that it is almost creedal disbelief.
The Shaykh : There is no need for all this talk. Is it practical disbelief or creedal disbelief? The best speech is what is brief and to the point. What prevents you from saying it is creedal disbelief? Why do you avoid the point? You say it indicates this and that. The question is clear: Is it practical disbelief in your understanding, or creedal disbelief? The answer: Practical disbelief or creedal disbelief. What is the answer in your view?
The questioner : What appears to be the case is that it is practical disbelief, but certainly this takes one out of the religion, because it does not indicate that this is not in his creed, that he is not a believer, that he is a mushrik, that...
The Shaykh : So you do not know, it appears to me, and Allah knows best, from your answer, which is your saying, "It appears to me that it is practical disbelief."
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Yes, practical disbelief is like practical hypocrisy, and creedal disbelief is like creedal disbelief.
The questioner : Creedal hypocrisy.
The Shaykh : What is practical hypocrisy?
The questioner : He performs the actions of the hypocrites, such as lying.
The Shaykh : Good. So, does this make him a disbeliever?
The questioner : No.
The Shaykh : Okay, when does he become a disbeliever?
The questioner : If he believes it is permissible, for example.
The Shaykh : So what?
The questioner : As if he believes it is permissible, or that he displays Islam while concealing disbelief.
The Shaykh : Well, how does it enter your mind that a person who believes that this is the Book of Allah, truth and verity, tramples it with his foot? You only looked at his action and said it is practical disbelief.
The questioner : Yes
The Shaykh : But you did not look at what this action indicates about what is settled in his heart. So, do you combine in your mind that a believer in the Book of Allah places his foot on the words of Allah?
The questioner : Never.
The Shaykh : So how did you say, "It appears to me that it is practical disbelief"?
The questioner : Yes, because I want to reach this point so that I can raise the difficulty, which is...
The Shaykh : But it is not permissible for you to say, may Allah bless you, "What appears to me is that it is practical disbelief," because you will soon say, "No, rather it is disbelief itself."
The questioner : Yes
The Shaykh : Yes, this is not appropriate, because debate, research, and discussion should be such that the believer is frank with his Muslim brother, and does not go around in circles until he reaches a hidden trap, and so on. So you are one of two men: either you believe that this action is the creedal disbelief that leads to eternal abode in the Fire, or you believe, as we say regarding that detail you mentioned, that you were present for, and I do not know if you were present for this point, we have two men who leave off prayer. Both of them: one believes that it is an obligation, but he is negligent in it, and he asks Allah to guide him and forgive him, and so on. The other says, as some people in your country say, "No purity, no prayer; that time has passed." Do they become equal, for example? No, they do not become equal, for example.
So you, may Allah bless you, gave the worst of examples, and yet your answer when I asked you was, "What appears to me is that it is practical disbelief." You did not look at the action that indicates what is settled in the heart, which is mocking the verses of Allah. So this is not practical disbelief, because practical disbelief is like practical hypocrisy. His practical hypocrisy is different from his creed. His creed is sound, unlike creedal hypocrisy. So the hypocrite who is eternally in the Fire displays Islam, prays with the Muslims, and recites the Qur'an, and so on, but his heart is full of disbelief, so he is in the lowest depth of the Fire.
But the Muslim prays and fasts, but he lies, as I said, or makes a promise and does not fulfill it, and the like. So his disbelief is practical, not creedal. When does his disbelief become creedal? If he believes that this lying is not forbidden, if he believes that breaking a promise is not forbidden, and so on.
The questioner : Shaykh Nasser.
The Shaykh : What did you come up with?