Placing the hands before the knees in prostration and imitating the camel's kneeling?

The Shaykh : This is what the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) forbade, and he did the opposite. Here, the author Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allah have mercy on him) took another approach to address the response to those who say to place the hands before the knees. He left the issue of placing the hands before or after the knees and took up another phenomenon. In reality, this requires demonstration, so I will make room for Professor Ali... Let him show you the image that Ibn al-Qayyim means. It does not apply to those who say to place the hands before the knees; that is, Ibn al-Qayyim imagines that the implication of the hadith means the prostration of a person who is completely incapacitated. How does an incapacitated person prostrate?

The questioner : ... .

The Shaykh : So what happens to his rear? It ends up above his head. That is how Ibn al-Qayyim imagines it. Yes, this phenomenon exactly resembles the camel's kneeling, did you notice how? But this is a different issue from what we are discussing. So we can refute the doubt, Ibn al-Qayyim's doubt; we say: It is not necessary for the prostrator's rear to be higher than his head. This is the thing that Ibn al-Qayyim denies, and by which he rejects the hadith, even though we can reconcile the apparent meaning of the hadith: and reject the image that he is rejecting, and we are rejecting it with him. Now, he means the prostration that we are practicing.

The questioner : What is the reason...?

The Shaykh : I mean, the difference between us and those who prostrate on their knees is that there is no difference between us and them in that our rear ends up above our heads. Rather, the first thing we touch the ground with is our hands, instead of their touching it with their knees.

The questioner : ... .

The Shaykh : And also Abu Muhammad, the prostration of the others... what do they do with the ground?

The questioner : The prostration of the others is like this...

The Shaykh : So, I think this objection has become clear to you all. Ibn al-Qayyim's objection does not apply to the hadith, because he imagines that it is necessary for placing the hands before the knees that one prostrate like this, with his rear above his head. This is not necessary. All that happens is that the prostrator, instead of touching the ground with his knees and his back being affected by his prostration with a tremor resembling the tremor of a camel, especially if it is loaded with weights; instead of this phenomenon that is not befitting the calmness and tranquility in prayer, this prostrator touches the ground with his hands, so that tremor and that impact with the ground are averted. So, we do not differ with Ibn al-Qayyim and everyone who opposes this authentic hadith, the hadith of Abu Hurayrah: We do not differ with him that it is not prescribed to prostrate in such a way that his head is in the ground... without his rear being above it. We agree with him that this is not prescribed; because from another aspect, there is a resemblance to the camel. But we say to him: What do you say about this posture that you saw; his rear did not rise above his head? And this is what Ibn al-Qayyim denies, he touched the ground with his hands. This is the explicit meaning of the hadith: ; because the camel touches the ground with its knees and it cannot do otherwise. As for the human, he is, as He (Glorified and Exalted is He) said, created in the best form; so he can act more than the animal. He can kneel on his knees, and he can kneel on his hands. So the Messenger (may Allah's prayers and peace be upon him) forbade the worshipper to resemble the camel by touching the ground with his knees. So this is the answer to the difficulty or objection of Ibn al-Qayyim to those who said with the hadith of Abu Hurayrah: .
The Shaykh: Then he says: "This is what he (peace and blessings be upon him) forbade." We say: No, if the hadith was only and nothing else, it would have been possible to say with the demonstrative pronoun and this restriction, "This is what the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) forbade." He is saying: No, he clarified what he forbade, and he said: . So what is forbidden? Placing the knees before the hands; because what is commanded is the opposite; placing the hands before the knees. So his saying "This is what is forbidden" is a response to the second part of the hadith; which is: . But Ibn al-Qayyim's excuse, in reality, he says: There is a mistake in the hadith. In the fullness of his speech, he says: The narrator intended to say: but he made a mistake and said: . This is Ibn al-Qayyim's viewpoint when he says: "This is what the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) forbade," which is that one prostrates with his head lower than his waist. We say: The hadith is clear where it said: .
The Shaykh: Then he says: And the first thing to fall from him (meaning the Messenger, peace be upon him) to the ground was the closest, then the closest. And here, this exact wording is not correct, rather it is a summary of the hadith of Wa'il ibn Hujr which he mentioned earlier through Shurayk, and you have known its weakness. Then he added to that and said: And the first thing to rise from the ground was the highest, then the highest. This means he is rejecting another authentic hadith; which is: "The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) used to, when he rose from an odd number of his prayer, rise upright on his hands." Demonstrate the rising in the correct way, and the rising in the incorrect way...

The questioner : ... ... .