The Permissibility of Spreading the Call and Conveying It on Television, with an Explanation of the Ruling on Image-Making.

The questioner : Praise be to Allah. This is a good opportunity for us to benefit from the virtue ofThe Shaykh : Regarding the call in the midst of television, O Shaykh, we also have the opportunity to establish or present programs through television.

The Shaykh : Hashim: Al-Sudani.

The questioner : The Sudanese television. In the past, there was difficulty. There was an opportunity given to Shaykh Abu Zayd Muhammad Hamza, who is one of our shaykhs. There was a Sufi speaking on television spreading superstition, so he sawThe Shaykh : and requested from the administration to comment on these superstitions. They gave him an opportunity, and then the matter moved to a response from him and a response fromThe Shaykh : until it became a debate that lasted nearly a year. It was all about creed, and the creed of the awliya (close friends of Allah) and the worship of the awliya, and so on. The tapes are recorded, so perhaps the brothers will benefit from them, if Allah wills. Then, in this recent period... the debate was by order of al-Numeiri in his time, instigated by Uthman al-Mirghani... Now, an opportunity has been given to us on television. The poor and weak one, I mean, has programs now. Praise be to Allah, it started with one of the brothers, Brother Yusuf al-Kudda, in a program called "Generalities," general things regarding dhikr (the remembrance of Allah), virtues, and so on. After that, an opportunity for a Friday seminar was opened, where the shaykhs come, and each time there is a talk until we stand. Now, there is a program I present, which naturally has some weakness, but in the name of creed and faith, we speak about creed, praise be to Allah, until we reached speaking about the unseen, about the Dajjal (the false messiah), about pessimism, and other things.

The Shaykh : What Allah willed!

The questioner : So we want, I mean, your guidance in this matter; because some of the brothers see that it is not permissible to enter television, or to present programs through television, and they rebuke us for some things. We have sought a ruling and asked some shaykhs about this matter, and we want your comment, may Allah bless you?

The Shaykh : I add my voice as a summary to those brothers. I do not see it permissible for the Muslim caller to expose himself to appear on television. However, detailing this general statement requires an introduction, and then understanding the details according to what we hear from the answer. In my belief, whoever believes that there is no difference in the forbidden images by the explicit texts of the authentic Sunnah between manual images, photographic images, and video images—as they say today—, whoever does not see a difference in the prohibition between all these images, and that they are all included in the generality of the hadiths forbidding image-making; such as what you know of his saying, (peace and blessings be upon him): , , then whoever sees with us the prohibition of all these images despite their different means; at that time, he should be with us in not being an agent for television. And here we know, and recently we asked a Muslim American this same question; because there now, they say television is in every house, and thus the call of Islam can be delivered to every house by means of television, especially since the American policy there has something of what they call democracy; where they allow every person with an opinion and a belief to spread it on television.
The point is: I see that spreading the call is not limited to the path of television. For example, you can speak by means of the radio, where there is no display of the image, and the people’s attention is not directed to this imaged person. And by that, you fulfill the obligation of the call and conveying it to the largest number of people possible, whether they are inside Sudan or outside it. As for taking television, which is first images, and secondly a fitnah (trial, discord or temptation) perhaps for the caller himself; I do not see that we are in need of such a means to convey the call. And I think you believe with us well that that word which says "the end justifies the means" is not an Islamic rule. And since that is the case; we should not be influenced by the means of the Westerners who take every means to increase the number of their listeners, and perhaps their exploiters; why?
Because as you know, and we are in these places, he said, (peace and blessings be upon him): , so our means are completely different from the means of the mushrikin (one who associates partners with Allah). Look at what has befallen the Muslims from being influenced by this false rule. Even if many of their intellectuals or scholars may explicitly deny it verbally, they may approve it in practice. The Christians and their priests and monks do not deny at all the mixing of women with men on Sunday in the church, nor do they deny that women attend the church in their most beautiful adornments and dresses; because this is a means to increase the number of worshippers in the church, they claim! And this, in my belief, this or this lewdness was not in the churches in the past, but the law of Allah, (Mighty and Majestic), in His creation is that the matter is as the poet said:
"And the greatest of the fire is from the small sparks that are underestimated."
So evil begins drop by drop, step by step, then it increases and spreads throughout the land.
Perhaps you all remember the hadith of Aisha in "al-Bukhari" and "Muslim" that Umm Salama and Umm Habiba, (may Allah be pleased with them all), when they returned from Abyssinia, mentioned a church in it, and mentioned its beauty and images in it. So he said, (peace and blessings be upon him): . The point is: they built those images in it. So what have the Muslims done today and before today from a long time ago? They have decorated their mosques. And Abu Dawud narrated in his "Sunan" from the hadith of Ibn Abbas that he said: The Messenger of Allah, (peace and blessings be upon him), said: —meaning: by raising its structure—then Ibn Abbas said, either by independent legal reasoning or by being instructed by the Prophet: , and the reality today does not need explanation.

The questioner: Correct.

The Shaykh : This decoration, old and new, is taken as a means to attract customers and increase them. But this is not how the Shari'ah (Islamic sacred law) is, as that poet said:
"Sa'd led them, and Sa'd was wrapped in his cloak *** This is not, O Sa'd, how you lead the camels."
So now we want to call the Muslims who have strayed from Islam, and the disbelievers who are ignorant of Islam. We want to call them. It is not permissible for us to make lawful in the path of this call what is lawful and what is forbidden. Rather, we should fear Allah, (Mighty and Majestic). And as we were commanded to eat what is lawful and leave what is forbidden; so from the means, we take from them what is permissible and good, and we leave from them what is otherwise. If we are agreed that images in general are forbidden, I think the matter is very clear, and it is that it is not permissible for the Muslim to take the means of his appearance on television and conveying his voice to the people. And this conveying is obligatory, but displaying his image to the people is not obligatory. So we must distinguish between this means which is necessary, which is making the people hear the word of truth, and the means today, what Allah wills, are facilitated and smoothed. As for conveying to the people while his inner state says: "Here I am, so-and-so," this is what I fear most, in addition to our previous contradiction in using the forbidden images. What I fear most is that it will be true of the one who exposes himself that the saying of him, (peace and blessings be upon him), will be true of him: . So this is authentic: it makes them hear the voice and displays their image, but this is a fitnah (trial, discord or temptation). And therefore, the Muslim caller should suffice in conveying the voice by every means. And with that, he hopes that Allah, (Mighty and Majestic), will make him firm, and not lead him astray, because also, as came in some hadiths: , or as he said, (peace and blessings be upon him).

The questioner : .

The Shaykh : Yes?

The questioner : .

The Shaykh, and without doubt, television is one of the most severe means that lead people astray, and divert the hearts and eyes of people to this which appears on television, whether it is a shaykh or a priest or a teacher, or a joker, or something similar. This is my opinion, but it is based on the prohibition of all images. So I think you are with us in this, and you

The Shaykh : Hashim: We have no objection to the prohibition.

The Shaykh : Yes?

The Shaykh : Hashim: We are in agreement on the prohibition of images, and praise be to Allah.
He said:The Shaykh : Praise be to Allah. So, if the matter is as such, then we turn away from using any image except for what is absolutely necessary, by way of analogy, consideration, and derivation from the hadith of the toys of 'A'ishah (may Allah be pleased with her). We do not say, as some of the scholars say, that this was before the prohibition of images, because this was in Madinah and during the Medinan period. Rather, this is an exception to the original ruling that forbids every image. Undoubtedly, spreading knowledge in a way where we have no path but this one is a permissible matter, if Allah wills, and necessity is estimated according to its extent.

The Shaykh : Hashim: One minute. The reality is that regarding television, we mean we do not have the authority to enter into it, but we are commanded to enter into it. For example, there was a discussion between one of our Salafi brothers and a tyrant from among the great tyrants, and this tyrant was saying: "The wali (close friend of Allah) knows the unseen."

The Shaykh: Allah is the Greatest!

The Shaykh : Hashim: The wali is in Khartoum and sees what is happening in America!

The Shaykh: Allah is the Greatest!

The Shaykh : Hashim: Yes, indeed, and many things of this sort were mentioned. When our brother challenged him, he said to the secretary who was presenting him—the secretary who presents him says to him: "O Shaykh so-and-so, the words you are saying are dangerous." He said to him: "No, if I want to, I can teach you the unseen." Yes, so our brother said to them: "Let the many words go. Right now, I have money in my pocket. If you know how much it is, I will give it to you. It is not far or near, it is right here in my pocket. Do you know how much it is? I will give it to you." This dialogue, O honorable...The Shaykh : ...opened up a very large field for people to pay attention to the evil and the good, and they began to distinguish between the evil and the good, and they began to rescue those whom they used to worship before. We were invited to this television, and the invitation was from the authority. We fear that the authority will turn us over to our institutions and schools and such. So, if they invite us, we respond. If we do not respond, we are considered fugitives. They consider us fugitives and keepers of the times in order to convey our message. So, from this perspective, our personal view from this perspective is that we consider ourselves mujahideen (strugglers) within the limits of our capacity. As for photography, we are in agreement on its prohibition, on its being forbidden.

The Shaykh : This is correct within the limits of what you mentioned, but that is one thing, and for the da'iyah (caller to Islam) to expose himself to present himself with a lecture or a speech he delivers on television is another thing.

The Shaykh : Hashim: It strikes him with arrogance, meaning the self-admiration.

The Shaykh : First, it may strike him with arrogance, or it may not. But secondly, he has departed from the rule. The circumstances you mentioned are one thing, and the general rule we are discussing is another thing.

The Shaykh : Hashim: Correct. If this is the rule that deviated, we found a correction for it. For example, we permitted photography for the ID card and for the university.

The Shaykh : Yes, yes.

The Shaykh : Hashim: And its name is the license; we permitted it for all these things. So, is there no objection to this particular part? We permit it to correct an error that has spread throughout the world, and it must be corrected.

The Shaykh : This, may Allah bless you, is not a point of disagreement. But what we fear most is that images will become a permissible matter for the general Muslims, even among the Salafis, especially for those who distinguish between manual photography and photographic photography, and say that photographic photography did not do anything; rather, it pressed a button and released the image.

The Shaykh : Hashim: By Allah, you have done a great good, O Shaykh. We, thirty-five years ago, a great Salafi scholar issued a fatwa that there is nothing wrong with a camera image.

The Shaykh : And many still do.

The Shaykh : Hashim: And we did not take his opinion. He permitted us other things. I was an employee in the state, and I could not save from my salary what I needed to build a house. The state lends me a loan to build the house and deducts it from me over ten years, but interest of four percent is placed on it.

The Shaykh: Allah is the Greatest!

The Shaykh : Hashim: Every year, so it became compound interest. I sought a fatwa, and he also said it was permissible. He is a Salafi scholar, correct, as you mentioned, many Salafi scholars. But we were in agreement that photography is undoubtedly forbidden, but necessity has its weight.

The Shaykh : It has its rulings, yes.

The Shaykh : Hashim: And we ask Allah to guide us to what is good.

The Shaykh : May Allah grant that, O Lord of the worlds.


The questioner : We asked you years ago about the topic of television, and your answer was that we cannot forbid television as a medium, but if it is used like the radio, meaning we switch between stations for useful things, for example, we present a program on how the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) prayed, we present a program on the acts of Hajj. So, we understand from this that teaching the ummah (the Muslim community) some of the matters of their religion means television is permitted, and the method of photography in television is permitted. This is one point.
The second point is that, in my opinion, we must distinguish between images. Not the photographic image and the drawing. No, because drawing, sculpture, and fixed things can remain a fixed thing. But a television tape, if we hold it, we do not see an image. So, it remains a transient thing that is shown to people once and then put in the drawers. Meaning, there is no issue of veneration; this has vanished.
The third thing is the issue of arrogance that you relied on, which enters in. This arrogance can strike any scholar, even in a council of knowledge in a mosque or such. So, his account is with Allah. If he wants to be arrogant, let him be arrogant. It has nothing to do with us.
The fourth thing is the truth of whether you said that we do not have to make television the only means of spreading the da'wah (calling to Islam). And who says that? Television is undoubtedly one of the means, and we do not have to deny it.
Thirdly, something I do not know, fifth or sixth.

The Shaykh : What Allah willed!

The questioner : You see that it is not necessary for us to see the image of the scholar who is speaking. Undoubtedly, those who show the expressions of the scholar's face, his movements, and his emotions, especially if the topic is a debate, not a lecture like this, meaning he interacts more. Meaning, you put a Sufi Shaykh and a Salafi Shaykh and they discuss, and their impressions are seen, and it is seen how they know, meaning how they evade, and so on. This attracts people. So, with these points and these considerations, is there any response from you?

The Shaykh : Does the meaning of the speech and its essence imply that television is permissible in general, or in a specific context?

The questioner : No, in a specific context.

The Shaykh : And we said this.

The questioner : A specific context, no, we...

The Shaykh : Be patient, one by one; because you—what Allah wills!—are preparing the idea in your mind first, second, third, fourth, then you scattered, is it fifth or sixth? Each of these needs to be addressed on its own. You said, for example, these emotions between this Sunni and this innovator, and so on, have an effect. And we do not deny this, but by a lawful means or an unlawful means? This is the research.

The questioner : ... The topic is long, I have commented.

The Shaykh : Take your time, take your time, I am now bringing up four or five examples, to the extent that I could grasp from the first to the second to the third to the last. These phenomena that you emphasize as having an impact—we do not disagree with you on them, especially since we are from the same country, and our country all says: "The eye is a ladle of speech"; is that not so?

The questioner: Correct.

The Shaykh : That is it, but this image should be permissible and not—what?—forbidden, falling under the general rule. So I said at the beginning, andThe Shaykh : I confirmed at the end, and we agreed and gave examples of IDs and passports and so on. So now you gave some examples and attributed them to me, may Allah reward you with good; like "The Rites of Hajj" and "The Description of the Prophet's Prayer." I say there is no television that broadcasts to people a scholar who applies for them the rites of Hajj on television; because most of them come not knowing how to perform Hajj, most of them do not perform the prayer properly, etc. I brought this as an example to clarify that television, indeed images in general, are not such that every part falling under the prohibition is forbidden, but it has exceptions. When we want to make an exception here, the matter requires knowledge and mindfulness of Allah. And when you said, for example, in some of what you said that it may be affected by arrogance and the teacher is affected by arrogance, your example was like the one who carries dates to Hajar. Why? Because I mentioned this, I mentioned the hadith that he who turns away the hearts of people and helped the man in mentioning this very word that it is a man, and therefore I said that he who delivers the lessons is exposed to fitnah (trial); there is no doubt in that. But which of the two matters is more apparent for fitnah, more prominent for it, and stronger for it? I am now giving you a very simple example. The orator when he ascends the pulpit; is he not in a place of fitnah?

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : Okay, but now—look at the difference—the orator who preaches on the minbar as the minbar of the Messenger has three degrees, and the one who almost hits the sky with his head has ten degrees. Are they equal, for example? No. So, we must consider these causes, which are appearances, that may affect or may not affect. But as our country also says: "Stay away from evil and sing it," and what does this mean? ... Likewise, it is taken from his saying (peace be upon him): This is it. So, may Allah bless you for the examples and parts you mentioned first, second, and third; if they give permission for television in general—and I do not think you say that—then we are in agreement. And if they lead to it being permitted in specific forms, like the form mentioned by the honorable...The Shaykh : , and like the two forms you quoted from me, then this is not a point of disagreement. The point of disagreement is to use television in general.

The Shaykh : Hashim: ... .

The Shaykh : ... .

The questioner : That due to the importance of this issue, because our brother who mentioned the programs he presents, I think they have benefit and have this exception, as long as it is a debate, and then I mentioned an important point, which is the most important thing, that we must distinguish between image-making, this image-making is not fixed ... on a tape ...

The Shaykh : Yes, this is what needs a response, this is what needs a response, from the things you mentioned, Doctor, first, second, and third. That is, this image that was filmed and stored; what is its name?

Another questioner : Its name is an image.

The questioner : It is not named an image unless it comes out on video; as for a tape, it has no benefit, like this tape recorded on a cassette and placed there, it has no benefit unless I use it, and if I put it on television, it is a passing thing, there is nothing, the reverence is gone, and the fixed thing that I see in an image, meaning a fixed, stable one, is gone.

The Shaykh : I do not think you answered me.

The questioner : It is not named an image unless.

The Shaykh : Doctor, stay with me, stay with me—and peace be upon you and Allah's mercy and blessings.
Your distinction between the image that became hidden, and when you wish you bring it out; this does not justify saying this image is permissible, and this one is permissible to film; and now.


Another questioner : ... .

The Shaykh : No, allow me, let me complete my conversation with the Doctor here.

Another questioner : ... .

The Shaykh : How?

Another questioner : ... .

The Shaykh : I mean, I do not want to throw it away immediately after the time passes.

The questioner : Is there room?

The Shaykh : Yes, why? To get rid of the crowd we endured.


The Shaykh : I want to say—may Allah bless you—the person must not stop at formalities; because the Shari'ah has educated us, refined us, and forbidden us from stopping at formalities. Now we take the first characteristic, this one who filmed an image of his son; did he do right or wrong?

The questioner : An image of what, O our Shaykh?

The Shaykh : An image of his son.

The questioner : A fixed image of his son, meaning a fixed photographic one?

The Shaykh : Not yet, not yet, an image of his son, step by step. This one who filmed an image of his son in the sense that he filmed an image of his son, not to register it in an ID or something similar, but just for the sake of remembrance, something like that. Did he do right or wrong?

The questioner : He did wrong, because there is no benefit.

The Shaykh : I am not asking you about the benefit.

The questioner : No, he did wrong.

The Shaykh : "The best of speech is what is brief and instructive." Did he do wrong?

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : He hid it in the box; did he do right or wrong?

The questioner : No, he did wrong from the start.

The Shaykh : So does this error extend?

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : Fine, and the ruling is the same for television—may Allah bless you. So your reliance on the fact that this image became thrown on the tape or something similar; this does not make the initial image-making permissible. No, the original ruling is that it falls under the prohibition, and what is built upon the forbidden is forbidden. This is first. The image of the son was hidden, but he is ready every hour to take it and look at it, and remember, especially if what? Allah has taken his trust, etc. He also fills it with memories, etc., then what? He throws it in the box. These are means to divert Muslims from obeying the Messenger (peace be upon him) in his prohibition of image-making in general. So the fact that the image was public at first and became hidden at the end does not mean that the first became permissible. No, it was forbidden and remains forbidden.
This is said regarding every form of image as long as it has not been distorted. This video image—if that is the correct term—is worse than photographic images; because the comparison involved in it is far greater than the comparison in static photographic images. You see a person moving, eating, drinking, and so on. Then, in your previous research, you took one point, which is that there is no veneration in it. When the scholars prohibit image-making, they establish that the operative cause of image-making has two aspects. The first is explicitly mentioned in the hadith, which is his saying (peace and blessings be upon him): . The other cause is that it was, at one time, a cause for the worship of idols other than Allah (Blessed and Exalted is He). So, for a person to take an image and you to exclude the possibility that it involves veneration, this does not align with the Shari'ah ruling prohibiting images from the perspective of blocking the means to harm, from the perspective of blocking the means to harm. If image-making is prohibited in general, and then we find an image that does not even cross the mind as being venerated other than Allah, this does not mean that it is permissible. The Lawgiver prohibits a thing not for its own sake, but because it may lead to other prohibited things. May Allah reward you, Doctor. It is necessary, I mean, that we look at the issue from all its angles, not just looking at this image itself to see if it contains veneration or not.
The image that Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) hung, which was embroidered on her curtain, or on her armrest and her pillow; do you think that Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) was venerating this image? Of course not. But he (peace be upon him) said: , . These general statements must not be ignored or nullified; because we found there are exceptions that the Shari'ah helped us to exclude, so we stopped at them and preserved the original ruling, which is that all image-making is forbidden, with no difference between a hand-drawn image, a photographic image, or video images as they call them today in this age. Please, go ahead.

The questioner: His EminenceThe Shaykh : I mean, regarding those who say that photographic images or video images did not exist in the time of the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him)?

The Shaykh : Yes, that is the people's doubt.

The questioner : So are they to be judged by analogy to what existed in the time of the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him)?

The Shaykh : They are not to be judged by analogy, and complete your statement.

The questioner: This is what they say—May Allah reward you. And in the time of the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him), there were two types of images: the image of a mirror or water and the like, and the image of drawings and carvings, these images. Some people compared it to the image of a mirror, considering it to be the same creation that Allah created, which is imprinted on the mirror, or on this polished surface, and it does not have this comparison. It is more inclined to be compared to the image of a mirror; because it does not display human creativity or human effort... And the hadith, as you have graciously mentioned, which is —yes—. So, this image is more like, they said, the image of a mirror, because there is no human effort in it that displays human skill, which involves imitating Allah (Glorified and Exalted is He). Those who compared it to an image more like carving and drawing, and so on? Yes.

The Shaykh : Are you finished?

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : First—may Allah bless you—the issue does not involve analogy, neither negative nor positive. The evidence for this is the one who takes pictures with the device, which is this photographic machine. What is its name in the language? And what is the name of the effect of this device in the language?

The questioner : A picture.

The Shaykh: So, he is an image-maker, and that image? Good. So now, if we take his saying (peace be upon him): , as Arabs we understand the speech of the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him). Does this include this image-maker about whom we are currently disagreeing, or not?

The questioner : By the general wording, it is possible.

The Shaykh : .

The questioner : ... If you please, let us detail these specifics. We say that the image in a mirror is also called an image.

The Shaykh : No, is he called a photographer?

The questioner : The one who made it, the person does not hold it now and make it, meaning...

The Shaykh : You answer me and spare yourself. Is the one who stood in front of the mirror called a photographer?

The questioner : He is a photographed person, like the person who stood in front of the camera.

The Shaykh : May Allah forgive you, may Allah forgive you. "The best speech is that which is brief and instructive." Is the one who stood in front of the mirror called a photographer?

The questioner: No.

The Shaykh : The matter is over, I beg you, I beg you, because rushing matters means we will be deprived of the benefit of the research.

The questioner : May Allah reward you with good.

The Shaykh : So if you believe with me completely, as I think, that the one who stood in front of the mirror is not called a photographer, neither linguistically nor by custom.

The questioner : I am sorry for the interruption.

The Shaykh : But I, I am afraid.

The questioner : We have prolonged this for you.

The Shaykh : You are rushing me, and if it were right for one of us to rush the other, it would be right for the Shaykh, andThe Shaykh : like you, but we say, as a matter of debate, if it were permissible for one to rush the other, it would be even more permissible for the Shaykh to rush. But I am not rushing you, and you are not rushing me, rather we are understanding each other. I said earlier, if you believe with us that the one who stands in front of the mirror and sees his image is not a photographer; the case is closed from a specific side. But I fear, I fear that you do not believe with me in this. Do you believe with me in this? So that we can proceed?

The questioner : May Allah bless you! I say.

The Shaykh : I ask Allah to guide you, I ask you.

The questioner : Detailing, meaning? No, I mean, detail it.

The Shaykh : How?

The questioner : I say: No, but I mean, detail it.

The Shaykh : Ah, please, detail whatever you wish.

The questioner : This is what I want, I mean, I am sorry for the interruption, I do not want to interrupt you—may Allah bless you.

The Shaykh : No, it is not an interruption.

The questioner : Just a moment ago, meaning.

The Shaykh : Rather, if I ask you, I hope your answer will be clear; because at first you said no.

The questioner : This is what I want to detail.

The Shaykh : This is not a photographer.

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : And now what do you say?

The questioner : I say no, with detail—may Allah bless you.

The Shaykh: Please proceed.

The Shaykh : I mean, the image in the mirror is called an image, and the video image is called an image, and the one who does the video photography is called a photographer, this is correct.

The Shaykh : This is a repetition of the previous statement!

The questioner : The one who does the video photography is called a photographer as well; but regarding the mirror, there is an image of the mirror that is called an image; as for the one who stood in front of it, he is called a photographed person, like the person who stood in front of the mirror is called a photographed person. Here the photographer is not present. This is what I want to say, meaning, just a moment ago.

The Shaykh : Take your time a little, are you finished?

The questioner : This is what I want to say.

The Shaykh : May Allah forgive you, Professor! You have brought us back to where we started, and then taken us to what we had not reached. Our research was about the machine, this solar photographic machine, so you brought us back to video. And according to what I asked you and you answered first: Is this person who stood in front of the mirror a photographer? You answered me first, no, he is not a photographer. Then you returned and said: I say no, but with detail. When you detailed it, you linked the image to video, and did not link it to this solar machine, this photographic machine. What do they call it?
Abu Layla : A camera.

The Shaykh: A camera. So, let us stay with the camera for now. We agreed that this person who stands in front of the mirror is not an image-maker. And I will not go far from you to say that this image in the mirror is an image, so I will not argue with you on this. And therefore, we do not debate on a matter on which we are in agreement; because we are in agreement—praise be to Allah. But we discuss a matter in which we may be disagreeing. And now it has become clear to us that we—praise be to Allah—are in agreement that this person who stands in front of the mirror and sees his image in it is not an image-maker, and that this person who photographs people with a camera is called an image-maker, and the result of his photography is called an image. Good. Now, we leave the image-maker on whom we agreed is not an image-maker, which is the one who stands in front of the mirror. We do not speak of this in terms of Arabic style. We agreed that he is an image-maker, and we should agree that he falls under the generality of his saying (peace be upon him): ; because it is a general text from which it is not permissible to deviate.

The questioner : The one standing in front of the mirror...

The Shaykh: What is it?

The questioner : We agreed that the one standing in front of the mirror is a photographer.

The Shaykh: No, no, we agreed that he is not an image-maker. As for the image, it is an image. So, let us leave that side to say now: the one who photographs with a camera is an image-maker without doubt, and that he falls under the generality of his saying (peace be upon him): . Likewise, he falls under the generality of his saying (peace be upon him): . Up to this point, is the discussion regarding Arabic style proceeding smoothly?

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : Good. Now, what took this image out of these general statements? What took it out? Nothing. I say that two things took it out. First, a factual reality, which is the trial of people with this photography by camera, until the camera became a means of amusement. Small children hang it on their shoulder and photograph whatever they wish, whether it is lawful or forbidden. So the people today, among those who claim knowledge, have been overcome by the love of making things easy in matters where there is no ease in the Shari'ah, even at the expense of the Shari'ah texts. And therefore they try to pass off this widespread violation today with various interpretations. So I believe, what led people to exclude images and photographers by camera from prohibition? It is that it is a general trial!
The second point, which we read from the time of Bukhiti, the Mufti of Egypt, and then its influence spread to many of the noble Muslim scholars, is that they said: This does nothing except press the button. In my view, this is a strange stubbornness. They do not look at the people and the efforts of people over the years that combined and cooperated until the matter reached the point of pressing the button, and then the image appears clearly, and more clearly than the hand-drawn image. Then, do you think the image would appear as this photographer wants without aiming the camera at the target he wants to photograph? Of course, the answer is no. Why do these people ignore this and say he did nothing except press the button?
My brother, it is cooperation with the photographers, these disbelievers. From hundreds of years ago, when they first invented this device, the image would not come out clear. It needed developing and I don't know what else, and they would take your picture and tell you, "Come back in a day or two." And now, a press of the button and the image comes out immediately. They completely ignored this cooperation and said this photographer did nothing except press the button! And those who photographed this machine and brought it into existence after it was non-existent, they are not given any credit. Finally, this man made the camera stay here to photograph this person, and he pressed the button, and his picture did not come out. So, it is he who is photographing! Therefore, it is a common custom that no one can deny that the one who photographs with the camera is called a photographer; because an action came from him. The only difference between this photographer and the old photographer is that the old one would take the pen or the brush and place the subject in front of him, look at him carefully, and strain his eyes until the image comes out as close as possible to the reality of the person being photographed. And I—as it is said, "If I forget, I do not forget"—when I was in primary school, the teacher of drawing and mathematics had a hobby in photography.

The Shaykh : Hashim: Was it in Syria?

The Shaykh : Yes?

The Shaykh : Hashim: Was the primary school in Syria?

The Shaykh : Yes, in Syria, not in Albania, because I left Albania when I was nine years old and I knew nothing. The point is, when we came to Syria and entered primary school, the teacher of drawing and mathematics had a hobby in drawing. When the students went out for the break, he would sit in front of the board, which in some countries is called the blackboard, and take the chalk—this chalk—and see a boy whose appearance he liked, and he would call him: "Come here, boy." He would place him in front of him, and take the chalk, and in moments, the image would be what? The boy. You look at the boy, and by Allah, this boy, this is a skill that is not like the skill of another person who does not have this hobby and does not have this mastery. Do you think these two photographers, one doing manual photography, would go beyond the prohibition because one photographed quickly and the other photographed slowly? I do not think so—also—this is a point where there is absolutely no disagreement.
Here we pause a little regarding the imitation that these people deny, who say that photography with the camera does not contain imitation. Where is the imitation in this man I described to you who took the chalk like this and whitened the board, and the boy is on the board? Where is the imitation in this? In other words; is this imitation internal or external?

The questioner : External.

The Shaykh : External. We leave this image and take the sculptor who carves the idol and the statue, and continues with it for long nights and days, and the idol comes out exactly as he wishes. I do not know if some of the attendees remember that Italian sculptor who carved an idol, and when he was pleased with his carving and that it only needed the soul to be blown into it and for it to speak, he said to it, "What?" He said to it, "Speak." It did not speak! So what did he do to it? He smashed it! He smashed it; this is an example of a statue. What is the imitation of Allah—Mighty and Majestic—in this statue that he continued carving until he was pleased with its carving for days and nights?
The imitation is in the form; as for the brain? The intestines? The heart? There is nothing inside at all; so the imitation is external and apparent, and it is known whether it is embroidery, photography on paper, embroidery on cloth, or carving of stone or similar. All this imitation is external and not real; therefore, I am very sorry that there are some scholars for whom I read an article a long time ago when the Al-Azhar magazine was called Noor al-Islam, and he was writing in itThe Shaykh : Al-Dajwi and his like. One of them wrote an article—regrettably!—in which he goes to the permissibility of idols—carving idols—, not only the permissibility of photography on paper, no, he mentioned two opinions, and then chose from the two opinions the one furthest from the Sunnah, that the scholars differed on the forbidden images; are they all forbidden or only the three-dimensional ones that have a shadow? He mentioned that the Maliki school permits images on paper or on clothes, and they restrict the prohibition to statues and idols. So what did this jurist say, regrettably?
He said, after adopting this opinion and not paying attention to the hadiths of tearing the curtain of Lady Aisha and the like, and the story of Jibril and his refusal to enter the house, yes, and his order to change the image until it becomes like a tree, and it was not a statue or an idol, but it was on the cloth. He turned away from all these hadiths; why?
Because he wants to make room for the poor artists who are living with the complex of prohibition. Most scholars say idols are forbidden with one voice, but this image has disagreement; so since this issue has disagreement, we left it. But what is the trick to get out of the opinion of the prohibition of statues? This mufti said that the artist—so he says—is permitted to make the statue exactly as he wishes, and then dig a hole in the top of its head until it reaches the place of its brain, and there is nothing of that at all, it is only a deaf stone, and thus there is no imitation; because this creation does not live in this image. But without a doubt, he feels, like every person, that this statue has fallen from the eyes of the artists; because it became what? It has a defect. He said: and the solution is easy, he comes and takes a "wig" and covers it on the head, and the defect is gone, and by Allah's will, the idol is in the most beautiful state!!
This is all evidence of the truthfulness of the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) in many hadiths, among which is: .
- Mubarak, O Abu Layla, by Allah's will this is a new garment! "You wore new, you lived wisely, and you died a martyr" -.
So the point—may Allah bless you—is that all of this is a deception of the Sharia rulings, and we exit the problem: every image, whether manual, by camera, by video, by carving, or similar; all of it is forbidden, except what is necessitated by dire necessity or pressing need.
And finally: It is necessary to point out that this press of the button reminds me of another button, which is that the Europeans—as you know—created huge machines, and created furnaces in which they pour iron or copper or anything, and press a button from here, "wrrr wrrr wrrr wrrr", and out comes an idol there. This idol by this method did not exist in the time of the Messenger—peace be upon him—and this image by this method did not exist in the time of the Messenger—peace be upon him; but what is the difference, my brothers?
The difference is like that poet said:
"The causes multiplied, but death is one"
And you know two hadiths—and with them I conclude this speech:
The first hadith is his saying (peace and blessings be upon him): . The phrase is known—God willing—and its meaning is: melt it. So why did the Jews make lawful the melted fat? Because in their opinion, they had not eaten the fat. Allah prohibited them from the fat. What fat? The kind that is solid, especially in days of severe cold, where it retains a specific shape. But when they put it in the pots and large cauldrons and lit the fire underneath, it heated up and melted, and took a new shape. Did changing this shape make the prohibited thing lawful for them?
The answer is no. The fat remains fat with all its properties. Also, this image is an image, and the one who made it is an image-maker, whether on paper with a pencil or ink, or with paint, etc., or an image that he embroidered or carved on stone or iron, etc. All these things fall under the name of images.
Finally, what appears to you is that these are forms from which Islam disavows itself. The evidence for this is this hadith and the second hadith. But I am keeping this one in reserve until I give you an example that occurred to me once on a journey of mine when I was returning from Aleppo to Damascus after going out for da'wah (calling to Islam). A young man rode with me and raised with me the topic of these photographic images. We discussed it—the road from Aleppo to Damascus is four hours—and I finally said to him: "They claim! And I mean what I say, because it is a fictional story that came from my mind." I said: "They claim that a noble, distinguished shaykh visited a diligent student of his at his home. When he sat in the head of the place, he raised his eyes and saw his own picture hanging on the wall. He called out to him and said: 'O Abu So-and-so, you are a righteous and good student, and what Allah willed! And you have heard in my lessons that images are forbidden, and that angels do not enter a house in which there is an image. So what do you think about having placed my picture and hung it in a place?' He said: 'O His Eminence...'"The Shaykh : "...for the sake of remembering you and taking inspiration from your character, etc." He said: "No, this is never permissible for you." So the obedient, dutiful student quickly took down the picture. And in the Syrian expression, days passed and days came, and the story was forgotten. And he returned...The Shaykh : ...and visited his student again. He sat in the same place, and lo, he saw the picture—again—in its place. He said to him: "What is the matter, So-and-so? I remember you responding to my call and taking down my picture. How did you put it back?" He said: "May Allah bless you. We understood from you the distinction between the hand-made image and the photographic image. That was a hand-made image, but this is a photographic image. What is your opinion of this appearance? Does the fitnah (trial) not occur with this one rather than that one? We seek help from Allah!"
As for the second hadith—and it is the last one—his saying (peace be upon him): , even though, as some schools of jurisprudence say to this day, this is a valid marriage. Why? Because the conditions of marriage were present: the guardian, the consent of the wife, the righteous witnesses, and so on. But the intention behind it was to make lawful what Allah has prohibited. So, scheming to circumvent what Allah has prohibited by any means is forbidden. Remember that the camera is like the Jews' scheme in melting the fats. Please, go ahead, and please speak if you have something to say.

The Shaykh : Hashim: By Allah, we have benefited greatly, O His Eminence...The Shaykh .

The Shaykh : ...May Allah bless you. This is from your generosity.

The questioner : ...But we want to leave with a benefit we have gained now, which is: since photography for necessity is permitted for the ID card, nationality, and camera; likewise, there are benefits from television, at least religious benefits, such as refuting doubts, or removing forbidden things by refuting them or criticizing them with evidence from the Sunnah. This means that photography for necessities is free from blame, while believing in its prohibition.

The Shaykh : ...This means repeating what we agreed upon previously.

The Shaykh : ...Hashim.

The Shaykh : ...But I want to insist on another point that we must observe, starting with passports or personal IDs. I believe that if it is possible to do without photographic images for personal IDs or official passports in the desired Islamic state, then we must do without them. But if there is no alternative to them, then we say: "Necessities permit the prohibited." And may Allah reward you with all good.

The questioner : ...That is enough, praise be to Allah. May Allah reward you with all good.

The Shaykh : May Allah reward you.

The Shaykh : Hashim: We are very happy.

The Shaykh : ...May Allah make you happier.

The Shaykh : Hashim: May Allah gather us and you in goodness.

The Shaykh : ...And may Allah bless you and your life.

The Shaykh : Hashim: May Allah bless you, and peace be upon you and the mercy of Allah.

The Shaykh: And upon you peace.


The Shaykh : Yes?

The questioner : ...Our children here are insisting that you visit us in Sudan.

The Shaykh : ...By Allah, I wish that could happen, but it requires something of a private session, for: first, so that you can get to know my circumstances, and second, so that I can get to know the atmosphere you have, to see the environment that helps me benefit more and more from my presence among you.

The Shaykh : Hashim: If Allah wills, may Allah bless you.

The Shaykh : ...And perhaps we will be able to—may Allah will it—or this session will be—may Allah will it—in this season.

The questioner : ...But your student Ali al-Khashan lived with us. He lived with us, and we want a brief visit, my brother. So he sat with us and knew the atmosphere of our country and its need for people like you, and the atmosphere is good—may Allah will it—and suits you.

The Shaykh : ...This is true, but I know, and I fear this example will turn me away from you more, and I am attached to you, because he fled from you out of love for you!

The Shaykh : Hashim: He fled from us?!

The Shaykh : ...And he is a young man, so what do we say about...The Shaykh ؟

The questioner : ...No, he cannot say he fled from something in the religion. He cannot say that; because he found responsiveness and the people loved him.

The Shaykh : ...No, he fled from the atmosphere that you do not control, and he desires the atmosphere that you do control.

The questioner : ...Yes, may Allah reward you with all good. We are happy...

The Shaykh : ...In any case, we hope—may Allah will it—we will understand each other on this point.

The questioner : ...May Allah will it. May Allah thank you. Peace be upon you.

The Shaykh : Welcome, and upon you be peace and the mercy of Allah and His blessings.