In some of your books, you mentioned in general terms your entry into Oman, and then your return to Syria due to compelling circumstances?

Al-Hawini: In some of your books, I don't know the name right now, you mentioned in general terms your entry into Oman, and then your return to Syria again under compelling circumstances... meaning, we just know that, right?

The Shaykh : ... It is known. I used to live here in a modest, small house... while I was looking for land to build a house on. I came across this land and started building. My brothers, of course, were very keen for me to give them lessons, as I had done before. Before I settled here, I would come once every one, two, or three months depending on my circumstances, and I would deliver some lessons in a house here.The Shaykh : "Aamer Atiyah," and we also used to visit al-Zarqa and deliver some lessons, and perhaps in...

Another questioner : ... al-Buq'a.

The Shaykh : ... al-Buq'a. The important thing is that it was my habit before I settled, and when I settled, I was occupied with building the house. They would come, and I would promise them that after finishing the building—God willing—we would proceed to teaching. We built and we moved in, praise be to Allah...

Another questioner : ... .

The Shaykh : ... teaching. We delivered our first lesson on the roof of the house.The Shaykh : Ahmad's house here, not the previous house where I used to give lessons. The roof filled up to its capacity. The second week, it was probably Tuesday, Abu Abdullah, right?

Another questioner : ... Tuesday.

The Shaykh : ... Tuesday.

Another questioner : ... Yes, Tuesday.

The Shaykh : ... The important thing is that the second week was the same. The lesson was on "Riyad al-Saliheen," probably for about three-quarters of an hour, followed by questions and answers. Before the third lesson—yes—arrived, the intelligence service came looking for me. I had just prayed the midday prayer in a mosque here called Masjid al-Nur. I was with my older brother, whose name is Muhammad Naji Abu Ahmad, and my son, Abd al-Musawwar, who now resides in Jeddah, was also with me at the time as a visitor. I was going up, followed by my brother, then my son. Suddenly, a man was coming up wearing... a suit, meaning. He said, "Peace be upon you." I said, "And upon you, peace." He said to my brother, "Are you so-and-so?" I said, "I am so-and-so." He said, "We want you for a moment." And there was a car there... So, the important thing is that they took me immediately to the intelligence office. From room to room, we reached a room where the man who had come and taken me was. He said, "Give me the ID." It was routine, a standard procedure. "What do you do? What is your job?" and so on. ... An officer entered, who appeared to be a senior official, tall and wearing glasses. He took me aside and said to me: "Shaykh, you are not wanted to reside here in this country." I said to him, "Why? I have... today or yesterday or a week or two weeks ago, I have been a resident here for a year. And not only that; I bought land with the permission of the state. And... they do not allow foreigners, as they say, to purchase and own property unless a petition is submitted, and this is forwarded to the intelligence service, then to the Prime Minister, who then signs and approves. So I point to this fact that I bought land with the permission of the state. Not only that; I built a house on it with the permission of the state. Not only that; I married one of their women. How long have I been here?" He turned his back, and I don't know what he whispered to the officer, and he left. He had said to me, "I am not satisfied" when he said he was not satisfied with my staying here... in any of the Arab states. But when I gave him this response and he withdrew, they transferred me—also—to another room, and he began to interrogate me. And then, as if it were a play, he acted as if he had forgotten something and then remembered it. He went out and brought a police officer who took me to another place and took my ID, and I don't know what he was recording. Then they took me down with a soldier and put me in a military Land Rover. They kept driving from place to place until they brought us to a place where there was a gathering, most of whom could be identified by their faces as being from the lowest of people, meaning.
Al-Hawini: Criminals, meaning.

The Shaykh : ... Criminals, gathered with their suitcases, and the suitcases were wrapped around them. And there was a military car... far from them. So I knew that these people were being deported. In one of the centers to which they took me, one of them told me that you are now being ordered to be expelled to Syria. When we reached the center where the people and the suitcases were, a sergeant came and said to them: "Come on, boys, get in." I was the last one. I resisted, and I said to their sergeant: "I am not going to Syria." Knowing that my departure from Syria had also been normal from this point, which many people call for, because after my departure, the Syrian revolution broke out a few months later. So my departure was normal. But after I settled here, I did not approve of returning to Syria for fear that they would put me under interrogation and cross-examination. And I was determined to reside here. Therefore, I did not see it right to return to Syria. So the sergeant, meaning, deceived me or lied to me and said to me: "We are not taking you to Syria, we are taking you to Irbid." The important thing is that we got in this car until they brought us to the Jordanian-Syrian border. There, a Jordanian officer took me over, and asked me, "What is your story?" and so on. Of course, he had information. So he allowed me to go to the Syrian border. The Syrian border, of course, requires you to exit and enter through official channels. So they cross-examined me—also—interrogated me. I told them the story, so they gave me a printed paper, of course, with decisions... and they say in the footnote at the bottom: "Note: You must report to the Syrian intelligence service within a period of three days, under penalty of prosecution for non-compliance." So I arrived in Damascus in the middle of the night and stayed at the house of a brother of mine there. The important thing is that I stayed there for two nights, and I was consulting with my brothers and our brothers; should I go to the Syrian intelligence service, or should I continue my journey and leave Syria? The opinions were unanimous that it is better for you not to meet the intelligence service, as you do not know what might be done to you. And on this basis, I decided and traveled to Lebanon. I stayed in Lebanon for approximately six months, or less, or more, I don't remember exactly. Then one of our brothers from the Emirates came, and he brought me a permit to enter there. I spent months there. Then some of our brothers here, such as Abu Malik and others, made efforts. They contacted the officials, until the matter reached the King, thatThe Shaykh : he is not a revolutionary man, nor is he a political man. He is a man of knowledge. And the system presented to the Prime Minister at the time, who was "Badran," two boxes of books. He said to him: "This isThe Shaykh : ... He was surprised.
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So the important thing is that he allowed... that they allow the Shaykh to enter. And so it was. This is the story you asked about.
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Al-Hawini: Okay, meaning, how did the exit from Syria happen? Even though.

The Shaykh : ... The exit from Syria was normal, without planning for the future. Meaning, I planned in my mind that in the last of my life and age; and in Syria, they say: "In the end of the vine, only firewood remains." Do you know... what that means? It means the vine, and only firewood remains. So this was my case in the last of my life. I said: What remains of my age, I must withdraw from people, and dedicate what remains of my age to completing my projects, or at least some of my projects. You know, there in the Levant, I had a wide reach; meaning, from Damascus to Homs to Hama to Aleppo to Idlib and Latakia. So I imagined that I would be occupied with people instead of completing my scholarly projects. So I went to a country where I am not famous. But in reality, it was completely the opposite for me. And this is as is said in some Isra'iliyyat: "My servant, you want and I want, and it will not be except what I want." And this is true without doubt. That I came for this purpose to live here, away from reviews and questions and so on, and devote myself to knowledge. So my exit was completely normal.
Al-Hawini: From the border, meaning?

The Shaykh : Yes.
Al-Hawini: And there was no search or anything?

The Shaykh : ... What search? What do you mean by search?
Al-Hawini: Meaning, for example, after the events in Syria.

The Shaykh : ... I am telling you, I left before they broke out.
Al-Huwani: I mean, from your exit after you entered, when they took you here from Oman to Syria, did you exit to Lebanon?

The Shaykh: Okay; and I did not enter Syria.
Al-Huwani: You said you entered Damascus, your name was not on the list at the border for arrest or anything like that?

The Shaykh: When I entered from here to Syria?
Al-Huwani: No, when I entered from Syria to Lebanon? On the basis that the revolution was... I mean.

The Shaykh: When I left Syria, there was still nothing; because they wrote for me a three-day grace period, if I was not [there] for three days, I mean, if I was not [there]... you would be pursued, meaning I would be outside, meaning I would have escaped from their hands, do you understand how? Therefore, after I traveled, the request came... at that time he was under restriction, at the time of my descent before... and I invite them without a doubt, because it is established... that I have absolutely nothing against me from before, even though they imprisoned me twice, but this was political imprisonment, because of... crime or revolution or something like that, so my exit from Syria to Lebanon was within the same grace period they set for me... the intelligence, but when the grace period passed and they saw that I had not returned to them according to their request, they started to search and ask, they came first... to my watchmaker son, where is your father? I swear to Allah, I do not know, so they excused him, I mean... and they imposed on him to review with the intelligence every month, even though he had absolutely nothing against him... and this...