A man enrolled in social insurance and then died; is it permissible for his family to receive a specific salary from social insurance?

The questioner : A man registered with social insurance, meaning a worker, died (may Allah have mercy on him); is it permissible for his family to take a specific salary from social insurance?

The Shaykh : We must know what social insurance is. Shaykh Muhammad is here; is it savings from the worker's salary, or is it investment of what they deduct from each month, with profit derived from it through riba (usury or interest)? If it is the former, there is no problem that it is permissible, and the deceased's family has the right to claim it. But if it is invested through riba and the money multiplies over the years, then riba is not permissible in any way. What is your information on this?

Another questioner : The situation is... now a portion of the salary is deducted... ten percent, and also twice this percentage or an equal amount is deducted from the employer, and this is considered a reserve for the worker.

The Shaykh : Good, but...

Another questioner : ...The investment is incidental; this is the administration where the funds accumulate.

The Shaykh: Yes.

Another questioner : They may invest it in lawful ways, or they may invest it in unlawful ways.

The Shaykh : This possibility is entirely valid, but we want to study the reality.

Another questioner : The reality, Shaykh, is that the worker has no connection to the investment.

The Shaykh : No, that is correct, but he has a connection to the fruit; meaning, as we understood from you, ten plus ten, and within a few years, a sum of one thousand dinars, for example, is saved for him. If the one thousand dinars are said to be his, and their profit is one hundred dinars...

The Shaykh : Yes?

Another questioner : The situation is not like that.

The Shaykh : No, I am trying to clarify the issue that he has no share in it; he has no share, that is correct. But when he knows that this money was invested through riba, it is not permissible for him to take what they call interest, if this is the case.

Another questioner : Our dear Shaykh, the situation is entirely different. Now, the worker may not take five thousand; he might not even get five hundred. Suppose the amounts that accumulated were two thousand; perhaps his family would receive ten thousand. This is a continuous monthly salary, meaning it ends and disappears under certain circumstances and conditions. Perhaps his family would not receive two hundred or three hundred.

The Shaykh : Why?

The questioner : There is a formula for setting a monthly salary that is divided among the heirs, and each heir has a share. This share may end if he works, if...

The Shaykh : We, may Allah bless you, want the picture to know the Islamic ruling in it.

The questioner : The investment is a separate and distinct matter from the issue of the money and the deduction.

The Shaykh : Yes, that is correct, but if this money is invested through an unlawful path; does it have a fruit? The answer is: No.

The questioner : Yes, but this answer now applies to all state employees and the entire society.

The Shaykh : There is no god but Allah.

The questioner : And all pension and social development institutions now keep their funds in banks, and they have accounts and...

The Shaykh : Yes, no problem, but this does not define the haram (forbidden), may Allah bless you. The Muslim man must calculate how much was saved for him: ten plus ten, and whatever exceeds that, he does not make it lawful for himself, nor does he eat it or benefit from it. He has one of two ways, and in both ways, some scholars in the present age issue a ruling: either he leaves this riba, or he takes it and spends it in public facilities. This is what I testify to Allah, whereas for him to eat it, that is not permissible for him.

The questioner : Who is able to calculate these precise accounts? This is a difficult situation!

The Shaykh : No, I think, although this is not my specialty—allow me a moment—is it not permissible for this working man to take what was saved for him during his lifetime? Is it possible or not?

Another questioner : A special case.

The Shaykh : No problem, I am interested in one case, not multiple cases, as our Shaykh says. One case we take and make it an example to understand the Islamic ruling. In this single case, when the man retrieves what was saved for him, as I said, ten plus ten, and he worked, for example, for so many years, it is known how much comes out for him; is that right or not? Regarding the ten plus ten, if what comes out to him is more than the total that was deposited for him in these years of ten plus ten, he knows at that point that this came to him through a path other than the ten plus ten, but because they used this money that was saved for him in these few years; the banks, for example, as I said, this is a picture where a person might know, but what he does not know, then .

The questioner : Let us suppose a worker or employee worked for thirty years.

The Shaykh : Yes.

The questioner : And this is a percentage of the salary. At one time his salary was one hundred, then it became one hundred and ten, then one hundred and thirty, then one hundred and seventy. And this percentage is deducted over a period of thirty years. And these percentages may differ from time to time, and the rules differ, so the issue is that it is a precise calculation!

The Shaykh : Oh Shaykh, this is correct, but it is also possible to take an example that determines how much was saved for him. It is possible to take an example that does not have these details. The purpose of all this talk is that the Muslim should avoid eating a single dirham of riba; because the Messenger (peace be upon him) said: . So if he knows that this addition is riba; he should avoid it. If he does not know, as you give some difficult examples, then .
...

The questioner : There is a second way: one can inquire of the administration how they invested these funds? Is it through a lawful path or a riba-based path?
...

Another questioner : ...The increase is not permissible, the increase in money. The increase does not come from investing the money, in the contract between him and them. But if he stops working, or is struck by a disability, or dies, or such, they pay his family until his youngest child grows up, or until his wife dies... suppose... meaning, if I only have one hundred dinars left, they might give him ten thousand dinars.

The Shaykh : A question for Shaykh Muhammad; that in some cases this worker might be able to retrieve what was saved for him? He answered: Yes. Were you with us in this situation?

The questioner : ...But it means he only takes what was saved for him, and then the profit of this savings.

Another questioner : Meaning he takes more than what was saved for him; he takes many times more!

The Shaykh : He takes more; from where is the excess?

The questioner : Through a contract between him and them, the social insurance and insurance and insurances contract.

Another questioner : Social insurance... two days ago there was a discussion on this topic at a company... just as he spoke.

The Shaykh : Shaykh Muhammad.

The questioner : It is a part of my salary that they save every month from the worker's salary, and twice what they deducted is added to it on the company's account... this is for the insurance. For a period of one year, this money is not invested; meaning if he takes it all, it will be his full right. After the year, it is invested in other investments, so from that he takes his right plus from the company plus the profit. So it means after the year, we can say there is something additional through certain investments; this is what I want.

The Shaykh : Here is the point of the question, meaning the truth.

The questioner : Social insurance, my dear brother, is now like this; if the man dies, if the owner of the work dies, the salary comes to his family; where does this salary come from... where does it come from the profit? The profit is finished; it will be finished in one year.

Another questioner : But in the end, on the principle of the money, other funds will be invested, either in riba-based investment or lawful investment, meaning there are types of investment, meaning places of investment in abundance.

The questioner : Does the answer differ if the entity is public or private? Public institutions that pay salaries to employees upon retirement, continuous salaries; does the situation differ in the ruling from private institutions?

The Shaykh : If the use differs; it differs, otherwise it does not.

The questioner : Public and private institutions.

The Shaykh : May Allah bless you. The issue of public institutions, all of them, such as public banks, all operate on the basis of riba (usury or interest). Does this mean that dealing with them makes riba permissible?

Another questioner : Of course not.

The Shaykh : The Muslim seeks out what is lawful.

Another questioner : Some people make a distinction.

The Shaykh : Some people make a distinction. Between what and what?

The questioner : Between the institution being public or private.

The Shaykh : What is the basis for the distinction? I have set a condition: if the same transaction or operation is involved, what is the difference in that case between public and private?

The questioner : ... There are two systems: a severed system and a classified system. In the classified system, if one serves in a position for twenty or thirty years until retirement, it is on the state's account. In the severed system, it is the same system but differs in that there is no retirement; one receives social security from the salary. So the service is the same. These have privileges with the state, and these have privileges; meaning, their rights are complete regarding annual leave and sick leave, everything except the annual or monthly retirement, which they receive from the state. This is the classified system. As for the severed system, it differs from the system; the severed system is handled through social security. Okay, so the system is different! The rights are complete; meaning, regarding annual leave, sick leave, and weekly leave, everything, meaning the civil service system applies to them.

The Shaykh : In any case, what is the difference from the perspective of the Shari'ah?

The questioner : The difference in the Shari'ah ... what is the difference.