Some semi-governmental institutions lend money to some farmers or industrialists

The questioner : Professor, there is another question. There are some semi-governmental institutions here—for example, I will tell you: the Agricultural Credit Institution, or the institution they call what?

Another questioner : Water.

The questioner : Industrial water.

Another questioner : Industrial water.

The questioner : These—for example—give loans to industrialists or farmers. We know, of course, that riba (usury or interest) is riba, no matter how small it is. But these people come and tell you: "We take, for example, one percent." They convince the farmer or this factory owner that it is not interest; it is for administrative and technical consultations.

The Shaykh : What Allah willed!

The questioner : This is, of course, a waste of time.

The Shaykh : By Allah, if it were truly not a trick or a ruse, there would be nothing wrong with it. But these people, I mean, if we do not say they disbelieve in Allah, at least their faith in Allah is weak. Many of them, even I feel this in the people who seek fatwas; the one you feel is only seeking a fatwa to know what is haram (forbidden) and what is halal (lawful), you find him going around and around to get a fatwa from you that suits him. He is not mindful of his Lord, he is not afraid of his Lord. I do not know why he is asking about haram or halal. Therefore, these usurers, these people, they compare, they present the issue, and they call it what? Employee wages. Fine; employee wages, why is this wage increasing? It increases the money, even though the writing is the same. They make riba permissible with the lowest of tricks.

Another questioner : O Most Merciful! The Islamic bank is even more clearly so; I mean, even some of those who deal with banks greedily, when you bring up the record of the Islamic bank, he tells you: "I am not committed to the religion, but this is the most riba." The commercial mentality tells you: this is riba itself.

The Shaykh : By Allah, we have heard this many times!

The questioner : Now, the other banks, when some merchants fled to the Islamic bank, they said to them: "Come, we will deal with you as the Islamic bank does, but..." they flee from... more than this; the transaction in which we deal...

Another questioner : Ah, indeed.

The questioner : ...then from your side.

Another questioner : Then I was not convinced until I went to the branch manager in... this.

The questioner : Yes.

Another questioner : I said to him: "I am entering, I want to get goods, and I want—for example—you to sell it to me for a period of six months. How much interest will you take?" I came out wrong from the interest. He said to me: "Excuse us, we are murabahah (a cost-plus sale)." I said to him: "With you, but how much will the rate be approximately? Let's say this, I want to lure him, or he will tell me: say: six percent." I said to him: "Fine; if I do not pay it after six months; after twelve months, how much will you take?" He said to me: "Of course, the interest will increase."

The Shaykh : Murabahah.

The questioner : I said to him, peace be upon you...

The Shaykh : Murabahah!!

The questioner : So I said: "This is the riba that we told you is riba."

Another questioner : ...Did you reach, my Shaykh?

The Shaykh : How? Did he call the adhan (the call to prayer)?

The questioner : Yes. We pray.

Another questioner : He has not called the adhan yet.

The questioner : He called the adhan.

The Shaykh : The time has come, can we catch up?

Another questioner : Ah, ah.

The Shaykh : ...in this mosque for a long time.