Is it permissible to describe Allah (Mighty and Majestic) as being in a direction or in a place?

The questioner : In *The Refutation of the Jahmiyyah*, it is more explicit than this statement our brother makes in the letter regarding the explicit affirmation of a place for Allah (the Exalted). This is strange for this Imam.

The Shaykh : ... .

The questioner : *The Refutation of the Jahmiyyah* by Uthman ibn Sa'id.

The Shaykh : ... absolutely; because when I said "The Refutation of the Jahmiyyah," my mind immediately went to *The Refutation of the Jahmiyyah* by Imam Ahmad, especially since you spoke well of it.

Another questioner: Peace be upon you.

The Shaykh : And upon you be peace, and the mercy of Allah and His blessings.
Al-Darimi, my brother, is known for this and for exaggeration in affirmation.

Another questioner : Let us return to the original topic, our professor.

The Shaykh : Return to the original topic?

Another questioner : But go back to summarizing what was mentioned previously.

The Shaykh : Abu Ahmad.

Another questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : The owner of the house knows best what is in it. Shall we return to the topic?

Another questioner : There is no objection, I mean.

The Shaykh : I see it as weak coming from you. I don't know why?

Another questioner : Yes?

The Shaykh : The phrase "There is no objection"; I see it as weak.

Another questioner : It is not weak, but I meant...

Another questioner : Who...? Before the prayer, who?

Another questioner : Yes?

Another questioner : Who of our brothers who were there has not arrived yet?

Another questioner : Yes, rely on Allah...

The Shaykh : I wanted to say earlier that the position of the Salafi Muslim regarding the verses of attributes and the hadiths of the divine attributes is to believe in their realities and meanings according to how the righteous Salaf interpreted and understood them, and to express these divine attributes using the transmitted phrases mentioned in the Book and the Sunnah. I gave you an example earlier that Allah (Mighty and Majestic) described Himself as Wise and Forbearing, so it is not permissible for us to express these two attributes contained in these two noble names, All-Knowing and Wise, with two other words, even if we intend the same meaning contained in the noble names mentioned earlier. So, instead of All-Knowing, we cannot say "Knower" or "Aware" if we want an attribute of exaggeration.
Likewise, for Wise, we cannot say "Intelligent," even if we intend the same meaning that came in the name All-Knowing and the name Wise. Complete faith requires us to be careful in this place and in this matter regarding two things: preserving and adhering to the correct meaning of the names and attributes of Allah on one hand, and expressing that with the words we inherited from the Book of our Lord and the hadith of our Prophet.
Accordingly, regarding the topic of direction and the topic of place, and describing Allah (Mighty and Majestic) with them or purifying Him (Mighty and Majestic) from them; it is not correct to describe Allah (Mighty and Majestic) with direction and place, nor to negate them from Him. So it is not said: "Allah is in a direction," nor is it said: "Allah is in a place." Why? Because, as we mentioned earlier, Allah did not describe Himself as being in a direction or in a place, but He described Himself with being Above, and described Himself as having settled over the Throne. So we describe Him with what He described Himself with, observing the two previous matters: being careful about the correct meaning of the divine name or divine attribute, and expressing this correct meaning with the phrase that came in the Book and the Sunnah. It is not permissible for us to interpret the phrase that came in the Book and the Sunnah with an interpretation contrary to what the Salaf were upon; as is well known in the verse: ; where the Khalaf interpret it to mean "dominated." They preserve the second matter, which is the word and the Quranic expression, but they do not preserve the first matter, which is the meaning that the righteous Salaf (may Allah be pleased with them) were upon.

Another questioner: Peace be upon you.

The Shaykh : And upon you be peace and the mercy of Allah.
So Allah (Blessed and Exalted is He), when He described Himself with , we say: This is our expression, and we interpret "settled" to mean "exalted"; because it is the known linguistic interpretation first, and then it is what is transmitted from the Salaf second.
Likewise, the phrase that Allah (Mighty and Majestic) is above the worlds, above the creations; this also came in the Quran, such as His saying (Blessed and Exalted is He): ; so we do not say: "Allah has the direction of being above"; because this direction first did not come, and we do not say, by our understanding and implication from the verse: , that Allah has a place. Wherever He is, He is on the Throne. We do not say this or that.
We do not say: "Allah has a direction," nor do we say: "Allah has a place"; likewise, we do not say: "Allah does not have a direction," nor do we say: "Allah does not have a place"; because both affirming direction and place or negating them; all of this did not come in the Book and the Sunnah, first. Second: because in both affirming direction and place and negating them together, there is a danger. And we must avoid any expression that opens up a problem for us or leads us to a danger of contradicting the Book and the Sunnah.
So I repeat and say: We do not say: "Allah has a direction," nor do we say: "Allah has a place," nor the opposite: "He does not have a direction and He does not have a place," for two reasons:
The first reason: that this did not come in the Book and the Sunnah; neither affirming direction and place nor negating them.
And the second reason: because affirming them or negating them entails a danger of contradicting the Book and the Sunnah.
The clarification of this summary is that we say: If it is said: "Allah has a direction"; I said earlier before the 'Isha' prayer: The Khalaf did not stand before the Quranic verses and Prophetic hadiths that deal with describing the divine essence with what befits His greatness and majesty; these later people did not stand before those texts with a stance of submission to their meanings in their realities befitting Allah (Mighty and Majestic), but they applied the tool of figurative interpretation to them. So it is more likely and more certain that if we come to them with phrases and words from ourselves, they will apply that tool to them, demolishing the correct meaning that we want from those words that did not come in the Book and the Sunnah. If they denied the attributes from the names mentioned in the Book and the Sunnah, it is even more likely that they would deny the meanings of those words we want to express with those meanings. This is from one side.
From another side: If we say: "Allah has a direction"; the opponents will exploit it and say: "Look! You are likening Allah (Mighty and Majestic) to the creations." And I excuse them in this; because the word "direction" is used for creations from one side, and from another side, our Lord did not describe Himself with it so that we can say to them: "Stop at the text." So we arm them with an argument that we are in no need of this arming; rather, we want to have the argument over them. And if we say: "He is not in a direction"; look at the affirmation and the negation, and that each of them has a clear and apparent danger. If we say: "Allah has a direction," they compel us to likening, and we do not want to arm them against us with falsehood. And if we say: "Allah does not have a direction," it occurs to their minds that we are with them; because they say: "Allah does not have a direction." And when they say this, what do they mean? Negating the meanings that the texts of the Book and the Sunnah contain, such as the verse of settling and the verse of being above, and many verses including the ascending of righteous deeds to Him, and the ascending of the angels to Him, and the like. All these texts affirm the attribute of being above and the attribute of the highness of Allah over His creation. So if they say: "Allah does not have a direction" and we agree with them in purifying Allah, and we say: "Allah does not have a direction"; that means we submitted and yielded to their figurative interpretation which entails denying the correct meanings of the verses and the established hadiths in describing Allah (Mighty and Majestic) with those attributes.
Likewise, if we say: “Allah (Mighty and Majestic) has a place” or “He does not have a place,” if we say “He does not have a place” with the intention of exalting Him, they understand from us exactly what they understand from our saying “He does not have a direction.” This is because they understand from our saying—if we were to say, and we will not say it except in error—if we were to say “Allah is in a place,” meaning by that that He rose above the Throne, we would have armed them as well with the idea that we affirm the place known to humans, in which no human can live except in a place due to his incapacity and weakness. Thus, we would have armed them as well with another argument from our words, namely that we say: “Allah (Mighty and Majestic) is in a place like the place of a human, which he needs.” And if we say “He is not in a place” with the intention of exalting Him, they understand from the word “not in a place” that He did not rise above the Throne. Therefore, it is not permissible for us to yield or be deceived in our debate with these later generations by saying: “They deny a place for Allah, and they also do not affirm a place for Allah.” The meaning of this is that we say one of the two things, whereas we do not say that Allah has a place, nor that He does not have a place. The reason, which I repeat so that the matter is understood, goes back to two things: First, this affirmation and negation—whether He has a place or not, whether He has a direction or not—has not come in the Book or the Sunnah. Second, the later generations will interpret our words in a way that contradicts our creed; so we do not open this door for ourselves. Rather, we describe our Lord (Mighty and Majestic) with what He described Himself with, using the same expressions and words that Allah spoke with, or that His Prophet and Messenger spoke with. So we say: “Allah is above His creation,” we do not say “He has a direction.” We say: , we do not say “He is in a place.”
From another angle, regarding place as a reality: place is derived from the universe, and we all know that everything other than Allah is created. Thus, this universe is other than Allah; it is created. So place is created. If we say that Allah (Mighty and Majestic) is in a place, it means He is in a created thing. This is from one angle. From another angle, the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) says in a hadith in al-Bukhari: For when did place come into existence? After Allah created the universe, place came into existence. So before the universe existed, there was no place. Thus, Allah was, and He had no place. So place is an existent thing. Describing Allah as having a place meets with the belief in the unity of existence, which necessitates that Allah (Mighty and Majestic) is mixed with His creations, like water mixed with ice, or butter mixed with milk. This is the opposite of the Book and the Sunnah and all the creeds of the community. Therefore, those who believe in the unity of existence are disbelievers by the consensus of the Muslims.
It is strange that the two disputing parties overlook this reality, though to varying degrees. Some of the Salafis do not notice that place is an existent, created thing, so they do not hesitate to describe Allah as having a place. But what do they mean? That He rose above the Throne. But they imagine that when He described Himself as having risen above the Throne, He meant He described Himself as having a place. The truth is not so. Likewise, the others—meaning the opponents of the Salafis—also imagine the existence of a place for Allah (Mighty and Majestic), but they realize that Allah is higher, greater, and more exalted than to be in a place. But they meet with the first group in that the meaning of is: He has a place. So, in order to deny the place that is not befitting for Allah (Mighty and Majestic), we deny the apparent meaning of the verse: ; meaning: He rose above. Because the meaning of that is that we described Him as being in a place.
The truth is completely distant from both parties. I remember well that in some of the seasons of Hajj, while we were in Mina at a time like this, we were in the camp of the Islamic University. An Azhari Shaykh came to us, from the “Sharia Association”; meaning the two Subki lineages = -- and peace be upon you and the mercy of Allah and His blessings -- = He sat down, and there was a simple circle around me, and I was speaking. The topic of discussion reached a matter like this, and the man stated, but with some politeness and gentleness, that you—meaning the Wahhabis, meaning the Najdi group—you make a place for Allah. I entered into a gentle discussion with him. After I made him understand that the Salafis do not believe that Allah has a place, but you imagine from their belief that Allah is above the creations and that He rose above the Throne, as in the text of the Book and the Sunnah, that you imagine they believe He has a place. The truth is that is not the case. And now I will prove it to you. The following discussion took place between me and him:
I said to him: Is place an existent thing or a non-existent thing? He said: No, place is an existent thing. I said to him: Good, a second question: Did place exist from eternity, or was it created with the universe after it was non-existent? He said: No, it was created with the universe.
Remember this logical argument that supports the Shari'ah by which we worship Allah.
He said: Place came into existence after it was not. We said to him: Is the universe limited or does it have no limits? Is it confined or is it not confined? He said: No, the universe is created, meaning a created, confined thing. I said: Good, remember these points on which we agree with you. Now: Above us is the first heaven? He said: Yes. Then the second, then the seventh. So what is above the seventh heaven? He said: The Throne. I said: So what is above the Throne? He said: The Kerubiyun angels. I said: What are the Kerubiyun? He said: Angels above the Throne. I said: What is the evidence? This opened up a new discussion for us, but it did not make us forget the previous discussion. But a pause for verification, and for the attendees there and here to hear how they used to receive knowledge in the Noble Al-Azhar. I said to him: Where is the evidence for the existence of angels, named the Kerubiyun, above the Throne? He said: We read this in the science of Kalam, the science of Tawhid, in the Noble Al-Azhar. I said to him: Do you not say that creed is not established except by evidence that is certain in its establishment and certain in its indication? And even a sound hadith that is explicit in its indication, you do not establish a creed with it, because creed is not established except by certainty? He said: Yes. I said to him: You are a learned, noble man, and I am a student of knowledge. I am asking you for the evidence from the Book and the Sunnah for the existence of the Kerubiyun angels on the Throne. And I am a man of contentment; I am satisfied with a single-narrator hadith from you. A single-narrator hadith does not have to be mass-transmitted for me, as you require. You say: I do not know, but we read this in the science of Tawhid, the science of creed. How did you take this creed without being supported by a text that is certain in its establishment and certain in its indication? This was, meaning, a point we stopped at regarding the reality of these Kerubiyun angels.
We said: Now we continue the previous discussion: I do not believe in anything above the Throne except one thing, which is Allah (Blessed and Exalted is He); because this is certain in the Book and the Sunnah. But you perhaps insist on the existence there of those angels whom you could not establish even a probable evidence for their existence. So I will go along with you; I assume that above the Throne are Kerubiyun angels. Are these angels a creation of Allah? He said: Yes. So we are still talking about the limited universe. We said: So what is above these Kerubiyun angels? He said: Nothing. I said to him: Is nothing a place or is it not a place? He said: It is not a place; nothing is described as a place. I said: So how do you accuse the Salafis who say that Allah is above the Throne; meaning they say that He is not in a place, because above the Throne there is no place. The place ended with the end of what? The Throne for us, and the Kerubiyun for them. So it was, meaning, a conclusive and clarifying argument, not... conclusive for them, clearly silencing them, that the Salafis do not believe that Allah has a place; because Allah was and had no place, and He is so now, even though He is in “every day in a matter.” How is the verse?
Despite this text in the Noble Qur'an, Allah (Mighty and Majestic) was never, at any time, whether before time or before [it], whether before creation or after creation, in a place; because Allah (Mighty and Majestic) is greater than everything, as is the belief of all Muslims. So, you describe the Salafis as saying: "Allah is in a place," thereby imposing your misunderstanding of them upon them. I believe that Allah is above the Throne and not in a place, because a place is an existent thing, and we have agreed that there is no existence beyond the Throne. So, Allah (Mighty and Majestic) is not in a place, at the same time that He is above the Throne, and at the same time that He is above all created things.
Once we know these facts, it is not permissible for us, the Salafis, to say: "Allah has a place"; because the truth is that Allah does not have a place, meaning a created one. But if those people who deny the attributes and interpret them figuratively call this attribute by which Allah described Himself—that He is above the Throne and that He is above all created things—a "place," then this naming is, first, an error, because Allah is not in a created place. Second, whether we say "in a place" as we mentioned earlier, which affirms a place for Him though He has no place, or we purify Him from being in a place, Allah has not been described in the Book or the Sunnah as being in a place, nor as not being in a place. As for our belief, a place is part of the universe and is a created thing, and Allah (Mighty and Majestic) is not in His creation.

Another questioner: Peace be upon you.

The Shaykh : And upon you be peace, and the mercy of Allah and His blessings.
Therefore, I wished that attention would be drawn in that message to the fact that the phrase implies affirming a place for Allah (Mighty and Majestic), whereas He has no place, and He is free of need for a place and for time.
This is what I intended to clarify and explain.

Another questioner : May Allah reward you with good, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh : And beware of that.