Some of the brothers have reported to you that you issue a ruling that working with the Relief Agency in its schools and institutions is not permissible, and this is a matter that truly concerns a large segment of our Salafi brothers.

The questioner: A professor, regarding this issue.

The Shaykh: Go ahead.

The questioner : Some of the brothers have reported to you that you issue a ruling that working with the Relief Agency in its schools and institutions is not permissible, and this is a matter that truly concerns a large segment of our Salafi brothers who work for the Relief Agency, and I am one of them. We want you to explain to us, if this truly came from you, with some detail. May Allah reward you, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh : I think the issue is not hidden from everyone. The Relief Agency is an American agency. If we remove the word "American" and put "Zionist" in its place, we would not be exaggerating or contradicting reality. So the issue is soft normalization. We are currently fighting embodied, concrete normalization, but the soft normalization that has been going on for years, we have swallowed and digested it, and we no longer feel that we are supporting the Zionist colonialism backed by American arrogance. This is my point of view.

The questioner: All right.

The Shaykh : Perhaps this is sufficient without delving into details.
The student : No, may Allah open your mouth [in blessing].

The questioner : Does this apply to all institutions? For example, if the state is pursuing a policy of normalization with the Jews, does this apply to working with them in their schools?

The Shaykh : This issue may differ and converge. You know that the degree of cooperation with evil varies in strength and weakness. For example, the sin of the person who deposits his money in a bank and does not take interest from it is not like that of the person who deposits it and takes interest from it. The third person is the one who deals with the usurer outside the bank, in buying and selling, for example. Recently, perhaps three or four days ago, we pointed out a place where a fish seller was advertising that his fish was fresh and at a lower price than we know from some other sellers. We followed the route plan to get there. Where did we end up? There were no residents or...
The student : There are, but how?

The Shaykh : Or it may need adjustment.
The student : It may need, yes.

The Shaykh: In the name of Allah.
The student : Just an adjustment.

The Shaykh : That is enough. May Allah reward you with good. We arrived at a place called al-Rawdah. Do you know it?
The student : Yes, that is right.
Another student: The al-Rawdah suburb.

The Shaykh : The one near Abu Anas, our brothers.
The student : Ah, ah, the al-Rawdah suburb.

The Shaykh : The al-Rawdah suburb.
The student : This is the one where the Islamic Bank is built.

The Shaykh : Yes.
The student : The fish mold shop.

The Shaykh : Yes, we stopped the car in front of the entrance. I did not know if it was here. My companion told me it was here, and she was smelling the fish. And I, praise be to Allah, have a blocked nose.
The student : Your companion, I mean Umm al-Fadl, your wife. It is better if the listener understands something else.

The Shaykh : No, he does not think, he does not think.
The student : Common people, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh : No, O Shaykh, have good opinion. Where are you sitting?
The student : I am saying that the tapes and recordings, O our Shaykh, are going.

The Shaykh : Hehe, my companion, my companion, yes, indeed.
The student : My companion.
Another student: Tell people what they know.

The Shaykh : The point is, I got out of the car and entered while I was thinking, did we make a mistake or did we hit the mark? Because all these buildings belong to the bank. Do you know this? I went back and said, "By Allah, it is closed." We said, "Praise be to Allah, it is correct. The saying is 'closed,' and I am not invalidating it." The point is, all these buildings are for the bank, from the building of the Islamic Bank.
The student : The Islamic Bank.

The Shaykh : They claim, yes, and this is a tenant or a buyer from the bank. There is a type of cooperation. I now see that it is not forbidden for me to buy from him, but it is better for him not to buy from him, because there is a type of what?
The student : Of cooperation.

The Shaykh : Of cooperation. I wanted from this example to show that cooperation with evil has degrees, and none knows them except Allah (Blessed and Exalted is He). Therefore, we say that according to the strength of the cooperation with evil, the error or the crime is determined.
The student : Correct.

The Shaykh : If a usurer, I want to buy from his shop, I mentioned this example to you. But a usurer who wants to buy fruit or bread or something similar, this is not said to be cooperating with him, because his money is what? Forbidden. Because this is the lowest degree that a person can imagine that this is helping this usurer. But this is indirect help first, and it does not have the slightest image of cooperation in evil. But the previous example, without doubt, is a very strong image in terms of supporting Zionism and affirming it in its oppression, enslavement, and colonization of our lands, and so on, and supporting America which helps it in all its misguidance.
The student : May Allah reward you with good.
Another student: ...

The Shaykh : But you.
The student : No, as for me.

The Shaykh : Take us with you.
The student : This is if you permit you.
The student : No, good, if Allah wills.

The Shaykh : If Allah wills.