Discussion of an example of practical disbelief that does not indicate doctrinal disbelief.

The Shaykh : But we are concerned with the other aspect, that it is not doctrinal disbelief, but rather practical disbelief. That is, it came from a person who did not commit doctrinal disbelief in appearance, because he performed the actions of disbelievers, but we may not adopt the ruling that this action of his is clear doctrinal disbelief. Is that clear?
The student : I need an example so that it becomes clear.

The Shaykh : No problem, the example comes after understanding the issue theoretically.
The student : I understood now, but the example is so I can be reassured.

The Shaykh : Okay, if we see a man praying toward a grave, what is your ruling?
The student : Praying toward the grave only.

The Shaykh : ... The question now is praying toward a grave.
The student : There is a difference between praying toward a grave and praying to a grave.

The Shaykh: How.
The student : There is a difference between praying toward a grave and praying to a grave, or prostrating to a grave.

The Shaykh : May Allah forgive you, why are you saying now that there is a difference? Is this a point of research? What is my question?
The student : That a person prayed toward a grave.

The Shaykh : Okay, why are you philosophizing now? Do not take me to say there is a difference between "toward" and "to." Why is this deviation?
The student : I said according to your words.

The Shaykh : The question, my brother, look, I say according to my words. I did not say "toward" and "to." I said what do you say about a man who prays toward a grave.
The student : I go to him and say to him, his action is not disbelief, the action is not disbelief.

The Shaykh : This is it. You asked for the example, and this example is before you.
The student : No, the example is not correct, O Shaykh. Why is it not correct? You said if he performs an action that resembles the action of disbelievers.

The Shaykh : Yes, this prayer toward the grave is not the action of disbelievers.
The student : Excuse me, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh: Go ahead.
The student : So the disbelievers pray to the grave, they call upon the grave, and they seek aid from the grave, as the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: But this man prayed toward a grave, that is fine. He may pray the obligatory prayer, the midday prayer, and he prayed it toward the grave without intending to pray to the grave.

The Shaykh : ... There is no detail. What is this detail for? We agreed to speak on a point where we may differ. Are you going to give me a lecture on something that is not needed and on which we agree? My example is praying toward a grave. Is praying toward a grave not the action of disbelievers?
The student : Praying toward a grave in isolation.

The Shaykh : What do you mean by isolated and not isolated, my brother? There is isolated and there is not isolated.
The student : Yes, it is from the actions of disbelievers, yes.

The Shaykh : My dear, we are talking about the action, the action. We are not talking about the creed.
The student : It is from the actions of disbelievers, yes.

The Shaykh : Okay, why are we discussing this and you are giving me a lecture? You asked me for an example of practical disbelief. This is practical disbelief.
The student : But also, O Shaykh, there are actions of disbelievers that do not necessitate disbelief...

The Shaykh : Are we now differing on this?
The student : Like clothing.

The Shaykh : My brother, you are supporting my words now. Why are you lengthening the journey? May Allah reward you. So you agree with us that disbelief is of two types: doctrinal disbelief and practical disbelief, that is first. And that any practical disbelief can be doctrinal disbelief and can be practical disbelief. How?
The student : No, Shaykh.

The Shaykh : How is it not?
The student : There is a disagreement, O Shaykh. Now you said, I am repeating all your words now. You said that doctrinal disbelief is apparent Islam, and then you said practical disbelief is divided into two sections: a doctrinal section and a practical section. Then you mentioned during your speech that the one who steps on the mushaf is disbelief. Okay, is it divided into practical or doctrinal?

The Shaykh : And what did I say? Do you want to hear the tape?
The student : Practical disbelief.

The Shaykh : What did I say now?
The student : Practical disbelief.

The Shaykh : What did I say finally? I did not say finally anything but what I said before: any action performed by one who testifies that there is no god but Allah can be doctrinal disbelief, and it can be practical disbelief. Why do you find a contradiction between my first words and my last words, which are a repetition of my past words?
The student : I am telling you, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh: Go ahead.
The student : May Allah reward you with good, it means a matter of research.

The Shaykh : Please, my brother, please.
The student : May Allah reward you with good, consider me your small son, meaning.

The Shaykh : May Allah reward you.
The student : May Allah reward you with good, and from you we benefit. So, O Shaykh, the issue is that you mentioned that doctrinal disbelief does not necessitate apparent disbelief, meaning for example a person who believes in disbelief, it is not permissible to say you are a disbeliever because his appearance is Islam. This is one issue. Then you mentioned that practical disbelief also does not necessitate disbelief, and it may necessitate disbelief.

The Shaykh : This is it, my brother. You take the text of the words and leave the second part.
The student : Practical disbelief may necessitate disbelief and may not necessitate it. It may necessitate disbelief if he steps on the mushaf, and it may not necessitate disbelief if a Muslim fights a Muslim.

The Shaykh : ... Two examples.
The student: Yes.

The Shaykh: All right.
The student : So it is necessary to detail practical disbelief into two sections.

The Shaykh : And what am I saying?
The student : No, you said doctrinal disbelief and practical disbelief, so I am telling you it is necessary to divide practical disbelief itself into two sections at the end of my speech: practical disbelief that expels one from the religion and practical disbelief that does not expel one from the religion.

The Shaykh : May Allah reward you with good.
The student : Bear with us, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh : No, how can I bear with you? What can I bear with you?
The student : ... Meaning, glory be to Allah, for the sake of the evidence.

The Shaykh : Allow me, my brother, may Allah reward you. I do not see a contradiction even to say I said once and I said, no, I am still saying that an action performed by one who testifies that there is no god but Allah can be an action that expels him from the religion and makes him dwell in the Fire, and it can be not so. What is there? Okay, where is the contradiction you are trying to say that there is a contradiction? I do not see a contradiction.
The student : ... .