What is the ruling on the imam if he forgets to raise his voice for the takbir in ruku' until he prostrates, and the follower misses the ruku'?

The Shaykh: What are you reading?

The questioner: A silent recitation, not loud.

The Shaykh: Yes, silently.

The questioner: The Dhuhr prayer, for example... so he bowed and forgot to say: Allahu Akbar; he should raise his voice for Allahu Akbar, here he thought the imam was praying alone.

The Shaykh: So you mean he forgot to raise his voice, not that he didn't say the takbir?

The questioner: He forgot to raise his voice, yes.

Another questioner: No, he forgot to raise his voice.

The Shaykh: Yes.

The questioner: Then he prostrated, and he also forgot to say the takbirs for rising from ruku' and the takbir for prostration.

The Shaykh: Is this in the mosque or a regular group?

The questioner: In a house.

The Shaykh: In a house, this can happen.

The questioner: I mean, between me and my wife who was behind me, I didn't think she was praying, so she didn't catch up until I was prostrating; she missed the ruku', so what is the ruling here? What is required of her and what is required of me?

The Shaykh: Okay; what is the situation? I mean, she didn't see the ruku' and the prostration?

The questioner: No, she didn't see it, no, it seems - Allah knows best - either I was prostrating and she was prostrating, I was in the first prostration.

The Shaykh: Prostrating and I said the takbir silently, and she didn't notice; that is possible...

Another questioner: What I understood is that you were in ruku', and when you rose from ruku' after hearing, you went down to prostrate.

The Shaykh: Okay; in any case.

The questioner: But my master, suppose... it happened to me that the one...

The Shaykh: No problem, don't worry, I am careful, no one got an answer, but we need to visualize how this strange incident happened.

The questioner: She probably - Allah knows best - I do not remember if she missed one, either the ruku' or the prostration, so the most likely is that I prostrated the first prostration and she remained prostrating... then I prostrated and I was saying the takbir.

The Shaykh: Okay; and what did she do after that?

The questioner: She caught up.

The Shaykh: Yes, she caught up, did she make up for it?

The questioner: Yes, she stood up and finished.

The Shaykh: No, she didn't stand up; I mean, did she prostrate two prostrations or not?

The questioner: No.

The Shaykh: So she has to repeat the prayer.

The questioner: She?

The Shaykh: She has to repeat the prayer.

Another questioner: Do you mean forgetfulness, my master?

The Shaykh: No. And you, as the imam, must prostrate the prostration for forgetfulness; because you forgot to raise your voice for the takbir, and especially since this forgetfulness led to the invalidation of the follower's prayer, so as long as she did not make up for the mistake that happened due to you, and that is by you rising to the second or third rak'ah, I don't know which one it was; if she continued the prayer on her own and performed the two prostrations, then stood up and caught up with you standing, her prayer would be valid, but as long as she did not perform the two prostrations, she missed one prostration, I mean; or did she miss two?

Another questioner : ... .

The Shaykh: Like each other, yes.

The questioner: Does the situation change if it was... in ruku'?

The Shaykh: No, because both are what are they called? A pillar, so if she missed the ruku' just as if she missed the prostration, both are pillars of the prayer, but the problem is resolved by making up for the pillar that was missed behind the imam as long as the cause is the imam, but if the cause is from her, her prayer is invalid, you, for example, prostrated the first prostration and raised your head, and she or someone else, for example, raised, she completed what? Between the two prostrations, when the imam prostrated the second prostration, she stood up and caught up with him standing, her prayer is invalid, there is no room for making up for it.

Another questioner: My master... if the imam missed standing and the follower behind him was standing and then he bowed, so there was a difference of two rak'ahs for himself...?

The Shaykh: As she has no excuse, her prayer is invalid; because she did not participate with the imam in the pillar.

Another questioner: Even if the pillar is one...

The Shaykh: Yes.

Another questioner: After they finished the prayer, if our brother noticed and said to her: that I did not catch up with you in the ruku' or the prostration, and she stands up to make up a full rak'ah and prostrates the prostration for forgetfulness.

The Shaykh: Yes.

Another questioner: She makes up the rak'ah that she missed.

The Shaykh: Yes.

Another questioner: This is because of the imam.

The Shaykh: Ah, he is talking about that story.

Another questioner: Because of the follower, it doesn't happen?

The questioner: Because of... she prays the full prayer.

The Shaykh: Yes.

The questioner: Now, my master, is there a time limit for the imam or the follower to remember to perform the prostration for forgetfulness, for example...?

The Shaykh: No, there is no, for example, if we suppose you went from one room to another room.

The questioner: Or the next day?

The Shaykh: Or the next day.

The questioner: You prostrate the prostration for forgetfulness.

The Shaykh: Yes.

Another questioner: You remember the next day that yesterday in the Dhuhr prayer he did such and such, he is praying the Dhuhr prayer the next day, so he brings it... whatever it is.

The Shaykh: Yes.

Another questioner: Now - our Shaykh - ... are you praying?

The Shaykh : How?

Another questioner: Do you make up the prayer?

The Shaykh: Obviously, it is necessary.

Another questioner: ... they are making an effort now.
...

Another questioner: Because I sayThe Shaykh: She brings the full prayer.

The Shaykh: It was Dhuhr, it was Asr, Maghrib, that is what it is.

The questioner: ... the Maghrib prayer is three rak'ahs, the Asr prayer is four rak'ahs, do you specify them?

The Shaykh: Yes, you have to repeat what, I mean, if it was the Dhuhr prayer or the night prayer, she has to repeat the Dhuhr prayer four rak'ahs silently.
... ...

The questioner: The imam prostrates the prostration for forgetfulness, if her mistake was due to the imam not raising his voice and she missed one of the pillars, she brings up the rak'ah that she missed... she is in two situations; either the not performing of this pillar is the result of a mistake from her, so she repeats the whole prayer, or if it is the result of the imam's forgetfulness, she makes up the rak'ah that she missed, this ruku'...

Another questioner: ... after a day or two, she still doesn't repeat the rak'ah, now we are talking about after a day or two, she repeats the prayer.

The questioner: No, no... I asked him if there is a time limit for performing the prostration for forgetfulness; I mean, today I forgot, I was supposed to make up for it immediately and I forgot, so I remembered tomorrow, I remembered the next day that I had the prostration for forgetfulness yesterday... the prostration for forgetfulness.

Another questioner: When the mistake happened in the prayer, she had to repeat the whole prayer regardless, so you told him: if you prostrated the prostration for forgetfulness and she did not make up for it...

The Shaykh: If she made up for it, it would be fine.

Another questioner: But if she remembered after five minutes, she still has to repeat it.