A discussion of Salman al-Oudah’s remarks regarding al-Turabi and some Islamic movements.

The student: "And yet the man was described as one who adapts to circumstances and knows how to live with the situation. So how do newspapers like Asharq al-Awsat or others come to describe them as extremists, fundamentalists, and opportunists? They even included the Yemeni Gathering led byThe Shaykh : 'Abd al-Majid al-Zindani among the extremists and considered the educational and scientific gatherings and camps held in Yemen to be centers for producing extremists and training terrorists, without providing a single piece of evidence for this." His words about al-Turabi...

The Shaykh: That is the end. Why is he talking about al-Zindani?
The student: But the brother here considers it as if he is supporting al-Turabi.
Another student : He is shining al-Turabi, my brother. When you say "among the common Muslims" and you say "this opinion" and you approve of this Christianity or... this Christianity or this Christian regarding al-Turabi’s opinion and you mention him among the Muslims, and you do not state your own personal opinion about al-Turabi, this is injustice, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh: May Allah reward you. There is no room here for expressing his opinion. His intention is to clarify how people speak about al-Turabi, calling him a fundamentalist extremist. And yet, what?
The student: ...he is adaptive.

The Shaykh: No, he is adaptive, he knows how to get out of it, and then it goes on to al-Zindani and so on. It means he is showing that these people of Asharq al-Awsat attribute this to extremism, and these Christians say, "No, he is adaptive." He does not want to judge al-Turabi with an opinion, whether it is the opinion of Asharq al-Awsat or the opinion of that Christian.
Al-Halabi: ...for Abu Yusuf, it is a matter, my brother... a matter of Hamas.
The student: O my Shaykh, let me speak. This man is reviewing the Muslim Brotherhood movements in the Arab countries.

The Shaykh: O Professor, O Abu Yusuf, I beg you, I beg you, I beg you, let the discussion not be like this. We are speaking, and we do not bring up things outside of what we hear on the tape, because what we brought is outside the tape. It is enough that he gives us a bad translation about al-Turabi, but the point here is that this man praises al-Turabi and has a good opinion of him. This does not give that at all. Rather, he is conveying statements from a Christian and statements from Asharq al-Awsat. These people say that this man is a Bedouin, or a diplomat who knows how to graduate in... how to twist in the topics. They say that he is an extremist. So who is the truthful one and who is the liar? There is no testimony here.
The student: ...this witness, for example, shows that al-Turabi, I believe, moves from point to point, from one Arab country to another, and then he reached al-Turabi and mentioned al-Turabi in this image. That is, these Westerners and these Christians praise him, and then he presents this praise, regardless of the witness he has in this story.

The Shaykh: Who presents the praise?
The student: Now he is conveying this image.

The Shaykh: Who is presenting the praise, may Allah reward you?
The student: This Christian.

The Shaykh: Well, this Christian presents praise, and those others accuse—what is this man’s name? Al-Turabi—of what? Being a fundamentalist fanatic. So he is conveying contradictory ideas. He does not want to say, "By Allah, I adopt the view that he is a fundamentalist and not an extremist," or that I adopt the opinion of the others. His whole concern here is refuting Asharq al-Awsat.
The student: Or the journalists in general.

The Shaykh: Or the journalists, good.
The student: But the point, O Shaykh, is mentioning such an innovator who is astray, and the opinion of the people of the Sunnah and the community regarding this man. It is not befitting for him to mention anything about this personality.

The Shaykh: May Allah reward you. This is not the occasion, nor is this the topic. The topic is that I do not see it permissible for us to take from this speech he conveyed from the Christian that he praises al-Turabi. We do not take from this, because he is conveying contradictory journalistic statements. But as for saying, "By Allah, he is certifying him,"
The student: ...adopting this opinion. May Allah reward you all. I presented this tape to more than one brother, and in one wayThe Shaykh: or another, the personality of al-Turabi comes to my mind, and perhaps I am mistaken in this matter.

The Shaykh: Other things.
Al-Halabi: ...political and the like. Although the Western newspapers, whether Asharq al-Awsat with its secularism, or al-Hayat with its philosophy, or others, do not speak only about these people, but they speak about the Salafis, they speak about Wahhabism, they speak about the preachers, aboutThe Shaykh: Ibn Baz. They speak aboutThe Shaykh: Nasser. He could have, if he wanted to serve the Salafi da'wah, the da'wah of the Book and the Sunnah, brought examples of these people. Because people now do not associate in their minds the blame; they associate in their minds the defense of the blame, which automatically requires praise from them. Even if I or my Shaykh, for example, tells you that this does not necessarily imply praise, does every common person, O my Shaykh, hear this speech and understand what is implied by it?

The Shaykh: That is another matter, Abu Yusuf... keep it in mind.
The student: Yes.

The Shaykh: The issue is that, by Allah, it would have been better if we said yes, but to take this speech we just heard from the tape and take it as testimony that he praises al-Turabi, this is not sufficient.
Al-Halabi: Yes, yes. But the point you mentioned, O my Shaykh, does it have a basis?

The Shaykh: We say the matter is: did he not cut off this doubt by saying something?
Al-Halabi : Yes, yes.

The Shaykh: That is, he praises the people of truth with praise and blames, yes, that would have been better.
Al-Halabi: Correct.

The Shaykh : But the question...
Al-Halabi: Specifically regarding al-Turabi.

The Shaykh: The question is: does this speech make it permissible for us, according to the Shari'ah, to accuse al-Oudah of praising this man about whom that Christian said he is a fundamentalist?
The student: Yes.

The Shaykh: By Allah, strong memory. I told you that they are correct in some aspects in the message of "Fiqh al-Waqi' (Jurisprudence of Reality)," and that the scholar must be aware of reality, and so on. And we said this is a good matter. But first, the scholar cannot encompass all of this reality. Second, and here is the point, raising this topic before the general public is another matter. That is, a political issue, speech is one thing, and accusing this speaker of praising one who is against the da'wah, in my view and yours, and perhaps in his view, keep it in mind, I am not biased toward anyone, I say perhaps in his view. But to take only this speech as evidence that he praises this al-Turabi, no, by Allah, I say this does not mean that, this does not mean.
The student: And the aspect mentioned by our brotherThe Shaykh : upon me.

The Shaykh: I came about it.
The student: Is there, I mean, something? Al-Halali: May Allah reward you. From what I understood, from the beginning of the tape, when he lectured on extremism and that he would come out with a clear opinion on extremism, so far.

The Shaykh: It is not clear. Al-Halali: He has not expressed his opinion.

The Shaykh: He is like that. Al-Halali: That is, he has not expressed his opinion. Now he is reviewing statements.

The Shaykh: Correct. Al-Halali: Then he will start analyzing and concluding... extremism, besides the issue of al-Turabi or others.

The Shaykh: Correct, this speech is correct. Please, let us hear it to see. It is clear that he is refuting the secularists who say that holding fast to religion is extremism. That is how it appears. Let us see, because I want to stand up and pray, you have gathered, I have not prayed 'Isha'. Al-Oudah: -Tape- "This newspaper is for producing extremists and training terrorists without providing a single piece of evidence for this. And this newspaper forgot that it is speaking about a reality that is separated from us by only a few kilometers, and that verifying these conditions and news is easy. But in the heat of personal and political enmity, it forgot everything and started speaking in this style. This term also included the Tunisian Renaissance Party, which is one of the most tolerant, indeed lax, Islamic trends in its ideas, its terminology, and its relations. As for the Islamic groups in Egypt, let us not even mention them."

The Shaykh: Wait, what is the name of this party?
The student: The Renaissance Party, the party of Rashid al-Ghannushi.

The Shaykh: Ah, well, let us hear it to see.
The student: He criticized them.

The Shaykh: He criticized them. I noticed that, but he is saying, no, wait a moment.
Al-Halabi: ...this Ghannushi.

The Shaykh: No, no, let it be in the margin. Now, let it be aside. We need to see if there is praise here or if there is disparagement.
The student: ...clear.

The Shaykh: While Abu Yusuf considers it praise.
Al-Halabi: No, he said, O my Shaykh, that the witnesses, that they also brought with...

The Shaykh : No, I do not see Abu Yusuf as being biased against the man. I do not doubt your intention, so keep that in mind and do not misunderstand me. Keep in mind that I do not doubt your intention, but I am clarifying the reality. The reality is that first, you took the man's words regarding what he reported from the Christian and from the Middle East, interpreting them as support for al-Turabi on the grounds that he is a fundamentalist. He was not speaking for himself; he was saying, "People said this, people said that." Then, regarding al-Ghannushi, which I had not noticed, I understood from you that he is also praising him. But I noticed a final point that I missed the name of the party for, but I noticed a final word that he is criticizing him. I do not know what he said about his leniency or weakness.
Al-Halabi : His concepts are weak.

The Shaykh : Ah, yes, this is criticism, Professor, Abu Yusuf. This is criticism, so let us go back and listen.
The student : Abu Yusuf needs to speak about the Wahhabis, about the Salafis.

The Shaykh : No problem, every occasion has its own discourse. May Allah reward you. Bring it up so we can see. Please.
The student : -Tape- "This term also included the Ennahda Party in Tunisia, which is one of the most lenient, indeed weak, Islamic movements in its ideas, its terminology, and its relationships."

The Shaykh : This is criticism.
The questioner : The Return -Tape- "As for the Islamic groups in Egypt, the story is endless. Indeed, even the Afghan mujahideen are now classified as extremists. Several publications have come out warning against them and against the Arab Muslim youth returning from there. We have never heard such voices warning against the youth returning from Bangkok, who carry the AIDS virus, in local newspapers."

The Shaykh : Allahu Akbar, against them, Allahu Akbar. The Return : -Tape- "And unfortunately, local publications and newspapers have become involved in this matter, when they should have at least shown respect to knowledge and the people of knowledge in this country, which is the focus of the attention of Muslims everywhere. In any case, the point of this digression is to say that these newspapers and these figures are not speaking about a specific category, no, but they are using the talk of extremism as an excuse to vent their grievances... their grudges and enmities toward the bearers of the message of Islam, even if they are moderate, or even if they are excessively lenient."

The Shaykh : Lenient. The Return : -Tape- "The term extremism may sometimes be employed for goals or against political or behavioral sects. It may sometimes be employed against principled doctrinal positions. For example,"

The Shaykh : Even if they are from the lenient ones. His words about al-Ghannushi, he calls him... yes, it is very clear. When that Christian described al-Turabi as... what does he equal him to? Yes, this is praise or blame? After he criticizes the lenient ones, there is no doubt that this is from the lenient ones. Al-Turabi, because he adapts. Now, what do we have to do with the Muslim Brotherhood, or some of the criticism we have is that whenever a state rises, they are with it, whether it is a military revolution, or a republic, or a dictatorship, and so on. They adapt. This is criticism, may Allah reward you, not praise at all. But in any case, he is merely a transmitter, and a transmitter of disbelief is not a disbeliever. He announces to the listeners or to those in his lectures that this Christian says such and such about al-Turabi, and this is like the Middle East saying such and such. And now it is completely clear that he does not support all Islamic groups. He has people who are certainly lenient, loose, and so on. This is very clear, meaning, yes.
The student : No Muslim is free from... Al-Halali : Your words reminded me of what was reported, or what some transmitters reported, about Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah that he praised the Asha'irah in his fatwas. After investigation and scrutiny, it became clear that Shaykh al-Islam did not praise them, and this praise is not from his words, but rather it is a report from some of the Asha'irah.

The Shaykh : Correct, this is correct. Al-Halali : It seems he reminded me of this.

The Shaykh: Yes, by Allah.
The student : In any case, the tape stirred the anger of some of the brothers there in, meaning, in our lands... and I am speaking, meaning, with complete frankness.

The Shaykh: Go ahead.
The student : With some of the apparent Islamic movements, the man, meaning, highlights those movements in one way or another. But perhaps we have forgotten, or we have neglected, the rule of good opinion and verification in matters. It is jealousy for the methodology, and we do not intend by it to testify to Allah the Exalted that we serve a faction or we serve...

The Shaykh : If Allah wills, yes.